Yukari Kido

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This transcript is based on a video-recorded interview deposited at MarE3, JAMSTEC (Yokosuka, Japan).

The transcripts of the research project Oral Histories of Scientific Ocean Drilling are polished representations of oral conversations, and are intended solely for the purpose of preserving and documenting personal accounts and memories. They are not a literary product, and are not intended to exhibit literary qualities.

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Interview of Yukari Kido by Beatriz Martinez-Rius on 2024 June 10, Yokohama Institute for Earth Sciences, Yokohama, Japan. [link]

Beatriz Martinez-Rius (BMR): Today is June 10 of 2024. We are at the Yokohama Institute for Earth Sciences. I’m Beatriz Martinez-Rius, postdoctoral researcher at JAMSTEC and I’m with Yukari Kido. Thank you very much.

Yukari Kido (YK): Thank you very much.

BMR: Can you please tell your name, affiliation and current position?

YK: My name is Yukari Kido. I was born in 1964, October 26. I’m now working in JAMSTEC, at the Ocean STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math) Project. That is a recently established, kind of PR (Public Relations) position. Before that, I was working with Beatriz-san in MarE3, mainly working with the database system, and management of the researchers onboard, marine geophysics and geology. And also preparing the drilling project at the J-DESC Support Office (Japan Drilling Earth Science Consortium), working with Kae (Takahashi)-san, (Yumi) Ebashi-san, and Sanny Saito-san.

BMR: Thank you very much. First of all, let’s start from the beginning. Where did you grow up, and how was your childhood like?

YK: Recently I was writing about such kind of items in an article for the Equality Promotion Committee of Engineering. When I was an elementary school girl, I loved earthquakes and volcanos, and eruptions, and stars…and our Earth. The Earth Sciences, because I had good teachers in elementary school, and also at junior and senior high school. And also because of the strong relationship with my father. He also loved very much earthquakes and the Earth sciences. He was a member of Earth Sciences Club during his university age.

BMR: Was your father working on something related to Earth Sciences?

YK: My father? My father was working at the Electrical Power Generation by atomic energy. Such kind of electric power energy institute, in Tokyo.

BMR: So he was related to engineering, not academia.

YK: Yes, engineering, not academia.

BMR: Was your mother also working?

YK: No, my mother was a… At home we were I myself and my sister, my younger brother, and my grandma. So all of six, the family. My mother was working as a housewife.

BMR: May I ask you where did you grow up?

YK: Tokyo, metropolitan Tokyo. Toshima-ku (Ward). Do you know the University of Tokyo?

BMR: Uhm, Bunkyo district. 

YK: Yes, so the next district, Bunkyo-ku and Toshima-ku. A little bit north side, yes, very close.

BMR: Where did you study your major?

YK: At Chiba University, which is the prefecture next to Tokyo. It had science departments for Biology and Physics, Chemistry, Geology and Geophysics, and (?). Five separations. But I entered the department of earthquake sciences.

BMR: Were there many female students?

YK: That’s a good point! Just my elder grade colleagues. Out of forty new entries, there were ten women, but of my age… only five. So, five. One on Petrology, two women went to Geology, and one went to Applied Geology and, for me, I took Geophysics, Marine Geophysics.

BMR: How come, that you chose Marine Geophysics?

YK: Because of the professor, Jimmy Kinoshita. He was (laughs) a very, very funny and nice person. And a big professor. So I was deeply impressed by his lectures and by his understanding of earthquakes and marine geophysics. And teams. He was a big teamwork leader. So I was very fascinated. And, yeah, I decided to go to that laboratory.

BMR: That’s interesting, because there were not many women in the field, but also there were fewer who went to the sea.

YK: Yes.

BMR: How was you first experience in an oceanographic cruise?

YK: In the elder grade, they were ten women scientists; and from those ten, almost half took geophysics, especially marine geophysics. So there were one or two colleagues with me during the onboard research, so I learned a lot from them.

BMR: What cruise was that?

YK: Dynamic Evolution of Crustal Structure of the Pacific Ocean, with some funding money from MEXT. So we had a 4 or 5 years’ big project to survey the north part and the central part of Pacific Ocean, the east Ogasawara region, and the Nankai Trough; and also southwest Japan, the Okinawa Trough… So many areas, using dynamite… yes (laughs). Big bomb, and… Explosive geophysics, to survey and to understand the deep ocean sites and the deep sea.

BMR: I’m curious to know how were you learning the things onboard. Was there some professor , graduate or undergraduate student, who tough you?

YK: That’s good question, also. Jimmy Kinoshita was the professor, and there was two assistant and associate professors, and an engineering support staff… Almost five persons supported the Marine Geophysics laboratory. And also undergraduate and graduate students taught me how to prepare marine surveys, how to analyze data, and how to write a paper or a report. That was a very, very good learning for me.

YK: How old were you?

YK: I was… Eighteen years old when I entered the University, and during second grade I took a… Geophysical labo (laboratory), and in the third grade I went on my first onboard research experience. And in the fourth grade, I visited the Ocean Research Institute, University of Tokyo. Why I had such a good chance? Because Jimmy Kinoshita suggested me to go to the Ocean Research Institute because it was very close to my hometown. My university was almost one or two hours (by train), one way. So it was much more time economical to go to the University of Tokyo, and (they had) almost the same research target. The University of Tokyo’s professor, Tamaki… Kensaku Tamaki ,he already passed away. But at that time, there was no student in his laboratory. So Jimmy Kinoshita asked me and pushed me to go there (laughs) to work and learn more things… Especially bathymetry, an oceanic, big bathymetry chart, writing a digital chart, and… analyze the data, compile the bathymetry data, and the magnetic and gravity data, to then combine it and make a big map. So that’s – nobody at that time did it. So Jimmy asked me to go to Tamaki-san’s lab to learn how to create such a big map. And how to reveal the history of marginal basins and the Japanese vicinity areas (through those maps).

Photos of the first oceanographic expedition that Yukari was onboard. To acquire geophysical data from the seabed, scientists detonated dynamite. The sound wave generated was later recorded by the hydrophones towed behind the ship. Left and bottom right, images of the explosion. Upper right, students moving the boxes with dynamite. Yukari is on the right, wearing a wite T-shirt. Photos courtesy of Y. Kido.

BMR: So that’s interesting, the mapping project. As far as I know, the Japan Geological Survey was also doing (underwater) maps. What was the difference between your maps… Or were you doing the same?

YK: Tamaki-san was at first in the Geological Survey of Japan. So I and Jimmy went to visit him there to learn how to do a big map with the digital pen, a color pen – yellow, red, blue… and drawing a contour map… And the coastline, fill in the color, and then get a very beautiful archipelago with the bathymetry data.

BMR: Maybe we can look for those maps, I’d like to see them… Maybe we could find them in the library.

YK: Yes, yes!

BMR: So when you graduated, instead of doing a PhD, you became a teacher.

YK: Yes.

BMR: How did that happen?

YK: I tried to go to PhD studies, but… I visited my junior high school as a student assistant. That was in fourth grade. I was also very interested in teaching students during my university age, specially on marine geophysics, and about onboard research. So I went directly to the students, and talked to them, established a conversation… (And I thought,) “Oh, that’s very nice work! and good job.” So, I tried to become a teacher (laughs). So I would like to go (this way) and do much more work and research for the PhD, but on the other way, I would like to go and be a teacher a little bit, or a few years. Yeah. So I got that way. I got a job soon after fourth grade.

BMR: And after that experience you decided to go back to academia, right?

YK: Yeah, so… I had tough period as a high school and junior high school teacher. And after two years… Junior and high school student are… how can I say it….

BMR: Naughty?

YK: Naughty. And (I told them), “please, sit down, please sit down, please…” (laughs) “please, answer my questions,” and “I will try to explain how to do today’s experience, today’s lecture”… But they were very, very naughty. And one student, he was very smart, and knew very much about sciences. And his question was, “yeah, you are graduated from university, especially on sciences and Earth Sciences. Earthquake research is deeply and in detail studying how earthquakes happen but… still, Japan has big earthquakes and many disasters. So your research and experience… are very important, or not” (laughs). So I was very shocked. I tried to go back again to academia, and do more research and learn more from Jimmy Kinoshita and other staff.

BMR: So you went back to Jimmy Kinoshita and asked him to access his lab again, and he said, “well, welcome back”?

BMR: No, not like… “welcome.” He still had many students. But… “Yes, you can enter if you pass the entrance examination.” I only had one chance. So he gave me a chance (laughs) to do the entrance examination the next year. So, I did three years of teaching students, junior and senior high school students, and then I did the entrance examination.

BMR: What was your PhD thesis about? What kind of things did you studied?

YK: That was on marine geosciences, English, and (reading an) English paper; and writing, understanding, and do some writing…

BMR: You are talking about the entrance examination, right? I mean, you then started your graduate studies and I was wondering, what was the topic of your thesis?

YK:Jimmy Kinoshita found that when I was a fourth grade, I visited Tamaki-san and created many maps and a database system. So (my topic was) how to try to use the database system and… with the data accumulated, study the history of marginal basins. So… My graduate student topic was the Japan Sea. How the Japan Sea created. And then, for the master’s course, the Japan Sea and the South China Sea. So kind of, the growth of marginal basins history, that was my PhD’s topic.

BMR: That’s really interesting. I think that it was a topic that during that period, the early nineties, it was being studied with more data from scientific ocean drilling.

YK: (nods) Right, right, exactly.

BMR: Connecting a little bit with ocean drilling and international collaboration, what was your first experience abroad? Your first international experience?

YK: That was ODP Leg 163, in the south-east of Greenland margin. Robert Duncan and Hans-Christian Larsen were the two co-chief scientists at the JODIES Resolution drilling vessel.

BMR: I’m surprised that you went on a first expedition to study an aera so far from Japan. How did that happen?

YK: At that time I was a PhD student, a last year student. Jimmy Kinoshita had already moved from the Earthquake Research Institute to JAMSTEC. He was JAMSTEC’s president. And my supervisor was Kiyoshi Suyehiro-san. Suyehiro-san was at the Ocean Research Institute. And he pushed me to go to such kind of drilling vessel, supportive office, or such kind of stuff. Because it was already decided that Chikyu or a big vessel would be built, so some staff and researchers would be needed. So, he tried to get me to that position and that required to go abroad, on a drilling vessel such as the JOIDES Resolution, or mission specific platform… Such kind of vessels. So he recommended me to do such kind of drilling research abroad. So, fitting in the good timing and good area, there weren’t so many (opportunities). Because the JOIDES Resolution was drilling around the Atlantic Ocean, not the Pacific Ocean. So he recommended me to go to Iceland and off the Greenland margin. The target was ocean basins, basaltic [?], dipping reflectors… (There were) so many layers of basalt, layers of different ages. So if we drilled through, to a deep, deep target… We would get different ages sequentially. At that time, I was (specializing) in marine geology and geophysics, especially in marine magnetic anomalies. So why not going onboard as a paleomag (paleomagnetic) specialist? So, ODP Leg 163 was in a good timing, from September to October 1995. My last year of PhD. So good work, I just tried it (laughs).

BMR: How was the experience like? Please tell me about the difficulties and the positive things, the things you learned during that Leg.

YK: It was a very nice ship and my… Actually, my first experience abroad for research. So many different cultures, and people from different backgrounds… Michiko Hithcox, she was the yeo person onboard the JOIDES Resolution. She was very, very kind to support on all things, the daily life and the onboard life; and to prepare the research on the JOIDES Resolution, and have coffee made, soft drinks, and so on. And also, I was the same age that Kristen St. John – she is the co-chief of the last Expedition of the JOIDES Resolution, the Expedition 403’s co-chief. So, very, very big (person).

BMR: Who?

YK: Kristine, Expedition 403 co-chief. She was a student researcher the same age of me (laughs). We were at the same cabin, shared the cabin, and maybe the shift time. She was a sedimentologist, and I am a paleomag. So we had different tasks, but we talked together and were together during the time off… And during dinner and breakfast time, watching movies… Such kind of onboard life. It was very nice. But the JOIDES Resolution, maybe was a bit small in size (laughs), so during one or two days I was sick, seasickness. So I asked Jamie (Allan), “please help me… Jamie…” (laughs). Jamie Allan was a staff scientist, so he gave me a medicine and some patches… That was very good. So in two or three days, I completely recovered (laughs).

BMR: That was the longest expedition you’d been into… Before, you had not gone on any expedition that long.

YK: Yes, domestic expeditions… For example, with dynamite and explosives, and I also did marine magnetism research with my proton magnetometer, or… Such kind of magnetometers, we created and tested them onboard… For such kind of research, it was a very short period (at sea).

BMR: One question – a parenthesis from the JOIDES Resolution, here.

YK: Yes.

BMR: Did you just mention that you created the magnetometers?

YK: Yes, actually I asked some company to create it and we went together, and they created the magnetometer. And towing it behind the research vessel, we took the dataset.

BMR: That was at the Ocean Research Institute?

YK: Yes. And before I was at the Earthquake Research Institute, and at that time I also did some things. At that time we collaborated with South China Sea Institute of Oceanogrprahy. There was a big scientist, professor Xou Dee. She was a mother of one boy and a girl, and she was doing high-level activities for the Institute, and also onboard research. So she was a very, very big (laughs) for me, a brilliant person.

BMR: Sort of inspiring…

YK: Yes.

BMR: What was her name?

YK: Xou Dee. She was a professor of the South China Sea Institute of Oceanography. And she was – the first time she visited the Earthquake Research Institute, she asked Jimmy Kinoshita, “please, collaborate in some research, especially in South China Sea marginal basin.” At the north part of the South China Sea, there is a boundary of continent to ocean crust. So we tried to study some geophysical phenomena, and some geophysical characteristics of such boundaries. That was the first time I met her.

BMR: Where was the South China Sea Institute?

YK: In China, mainland China.

BMR: So, this was a collaboration between…

YK: Yes, Japan and China.  Also, at that time, Japan, Russia, China, and (South) Korea. Four big countries. And also the US. At the US, it was the University of Texas A&M. That university was a core repository of ODP and DSDP, and a big Marine-Earth Sciences research center, yeah. Do you know professor Tom Hilde (Thomas Wayne Clark Hilde)? Tom is marine magnetic person. A colleague of professor Ueda, Seiya Ueda, Emeritus Professor at the Earthquake Research Institute. Big professors, yes.

BMR: The countries you mentioned that were collaborating, Japan, Russia, Korea, China, the US…

YK: Yes.

BMR: Sounds so challenging! Was there any difficulty in the exchanges?

YK: That was a talent of Jimmy Kinoshita. He is a very international person. He had a big experience before the Tokyo Olympics. He translated to [?] the some Olympic (laughs) Russian Olympic winners, some translation into Russian into Japanese. So he liked very much international collaboration and international research, such kind of activities.

BMR: So he brought together people from all these countries to study the South China Sea.

YK: At first, it was just between the US and his own research, because he was onboard during the research of (site) 504, the deepest target of JOIDES Resolution (note: drilled in 1979, it is still the deepest crustal borehole). He was also paleomag, and did research on rock magnetism, top science research. At first he collaborated with Tom Hilde, and then some researchers from Russia joined. And then, some person from (South) Korea. And Xou Lee from China – she was visiting the Earthquake Research Institute. And soon after that, Jimmy Kinoshita took big money for such kind of international collaboration… So he asked to the domestic person, who was Kiyoshi Suyehiro and Hirata-san, who was at the University of Chiba, a big professor… And also from Hokkaido University and Tohoku University, Kyoto University and Kyushu University… So many collaborators together (laughs), who worked for the big money. Then, at first (we studied the) South China Sea and also the Japan Sea. The reason is that it is much closer to Russia and the Korean part. So we tried to get some money and use several research vessels, surveying the Japan Sea and the South China Sea.

BMR: So, if I understood it correctly, each one of you were working with your institution and your vessels, you gathered the data, and then you put together that data to understand the formation of the South China Sea.

YK: Yes. The South China Sea and also the Japan Sea and such marginal basins. We studied the history of the marginal basins, between the big continent and some islands. That was the big, big target.

BMR: Was it successful?

YK: Yes, I think so, a big success.

BMR: Did you keep in touch with Xou Lee, after that?

YK: Yes. After that position, she became a big professor and she has already retired, but from time to time we have a good email connection.

BMR: Nice. That was very interesting. At the same time, it seems very difficult from a political perspective.

YK: Yes, exactly.

BMR: Maybe we can go back to ODP Leg 163.

YK: Yeah, yeah.

BMR: So, let’s go back to 163, in 1995. It is known that there was a big storm.

YK: Yes, the Perfect Storm. (laughs)

Photos of the “perfect storm” captured from the JOIDES Resolution. Courtesy of Y. Kido.

BMR: So how did you experience that? I’m interested in knowing the experience of someone who has lived such a difficult situation with other people. It’s like a life threatening situation.

YK: Yes, there was a big, big storm… One of the most challenging and the… A very, very famous storm (laughs) I’ve made it through in my life. So actually, Leg 163 had several problems from the start. We had to change some equipment, so we returned to Reykjavik once, and twice, and then we fixed the problem and after maintenance, we went back to the drilling sites. One site was very successfully recovered, it was the basalt of a seaward dipping reflector, with so many layers of basalts. Once, a technician fell down to the moon pool and he broke a leg… He got big damage. And doctor Harry came with a helicopter to the JOIDES Resolution, to pick him up and bring him to a big hospital. And also, some special parts we required onboard, so we had to ask again the supply boat to bring us the supplies (laughs). Such kind of things… For almost one month, the drilling process was very nice… But in the next site, when we were drilling through a several hundred – more than five or six hundred – meters, suddenly, a big storm erupted. So, when I was in off time, I visited the bridge and the radio persons. (They showed me) a little hurricane, the eye of a hurricane, in the southern part of Florida or around. “Maybe it’s big one, uhm… We will try to go a little bit further… in a safe way.” But the next day, or two or three days after, a big, big… it  had almost doubled. Yes, so strong… Very, very strong storm. Almost in our site. But… The drill pipe had already entered a several hundred meters, so the captain said, “we need to escape this site.” But there were so many icebergs in Greenland’s margins, in September… Several big (laughs) icebergs hit the JOIDES Resolution on the starboard side. There were one or two supply boats and an ice watcher boat watching our drilling process, but the big storm almost came, so the vessels and the supply boat escaped. The JOIDES Resolution was damaged due to the wind, and the bridge… In that big storm, the big waves attached and broke the window of the bridge. So many seawater entered, and everything got wet…

BMR: Sounds scary.

YK: Yes, scary. And there was also a blackout. At the library, all the books, thick books and dictionaries fell down the floor and the captain said, “please stay in your room. Don’t go to the labo area.” The labo area and the cabin were separated, and we went through an outside corridor, but that was shut down. So we should stay in our room… Yes, that was very big.

BMR: Was the ship it moving a lot?

YK: Yeah, moving a lot, (laughs) heaving and pitching and jumping… Seawater came in. So the blackout… But technicians, the staff, and the yeo person did their best to support and said, “please calm down,” “there’s no problem,” “no problem.” They did it in the best way, the safest way. Yes, very nice and talented persons. We all survived, in the crew.

BMR: I’m glad that nothing worse happened and you made It back to the port.

YK: Yeah, in Halifax. Actually some deck felt down, and also the radar broke. That was the most important information (for the ship), but the radar got broken. It was hit by big wave and the water… So we had almost no eyes and no support vessels, no boats (around).

BMR: I think this has been the works situation for the…

YK: Yes, in JOIDES (Resolution) history.  

BMR: Maybe in Chikyu’s, also?

YK: Chikyu experienced March 11 (the Tohoku earthquake of March 11, 2011).

BMR: Of course. That was on port (Hachinohe, Aomori prefecture, Japan).

YK: Yes.

BMR: So at that time, were you working at the Ocean Research Institute?

YK: Yes, I was a PhD student at the Ocean Research Institute, and onboard I was a paleomag specialist.

BMR: So what happened after that, after you returned from Leg 163?

YK: (The expedition was) one and a half months, so we had some data. So at least we took some data and could write a report. And after that… I finished my PhD thesis, and I defended at the end of December. And then, close to March, I graduated from the PhD and I started working at JAMSTEC.

BMR: Why did you apply to JAMSTEC?

YK: Jimmy Kinoshita asked me, “why don’t you get a position?”. Yes, I was so lucky… Because in 1995, January 17, we had a big earthquake on Awaji and Hyogo-Ken Nambu, that is, the Kansai district’s big earthquakes. At that time, there were almost six thousand seismological positions on land, but we needed in the seaside, some kind of ocean seismographs. So MEXT, at that time the Science and Technology Agency, decided to put a big institute in JAMSTEC to develop this ocean research, especially on earthquakes that occur at the ocean bottom, and on subduction zones. So there was a ten-year period project of subduction zones and ocean sciences. So, I applied to that project (laughs). I was lucky, a lucky case.

BMR: How was the ratio female/male in your new working environment?

YK: I, and… one, two three… almost ten… Yeah, do you know Kodaira-san? Kodaira-san is very, very renowned, first-stage scientist. So (we were) maybe ten staff researchers? And undergraduate and graduate students gave research support. Two science staff were female. I and Ayako Nikani-san, and… Eight researchers were male researchers. So that was the start.

BMR: What was your role in that project?

YK: I was in the database, in charge of the database. We accumulated the data, especially from the subduction zone around Japan, the Japan Trench, the Nankai Trough, and Izu-Bonin… There was not so many data, at that time. So, do you know the research vessel Kairei? Kairei was just built to survey such subduction zones through marine geophysics. (Conducting) airgun surveys, and (deploying) ocean bottom seismographs, (conducting) reflection and refraction surveys… So, it just started.

BMR: So in your first years as a researcher, you were working with offshore data, putting it together.

YK: Yeah.

BMR: From the subduction zones around Japan.

YK: Yes, exactly. And then we could plan to fix a suitable track line to reveal the subduction zone.

BMR: You were working in JAMSTEC headquarters in this new earthquake-related project. I was wondering, what was its relation between the construction of Chikyu or ocean drilling with your project? I mean, how did you got involved in the Japanese program of scientific ocean drilling?

YK: At that time, the ocean drilling project promotion team was in the Deep-Sea Research building. Different project and different persons. And already Sanny Saito and (Nobu) Eguchi-san were some of the staff sitting there. I was involved in the subduction zone (project), but our first target was the Nankai Trough. So, which area should be a drilling target. So… (we were) kind of a preparation team for the target of Nankai Trough drilling area. That was in 199… I entered in 1997, and after Chikyu was built, the shakedown cruise was in 2005. So, eight years had passed. And these eight years, we were devoted to subduction zone project, and many data accumulated. Almost 300 track lines across and along the trench and the deep sea ocean. We then created a map, and subduction images, and the angle of the subduction zone plate boundary, and plate subduction images, and figure that out… So, eight years. And in 2005 it was the first shakedown of Chikyu at Shimokita (peninsula) area. That was a kindness of the governor of Hachinohe city, who supported such a big vessel, “oh, please come to our port. Please, please” (laughs). So they visited Hachinohe, and did the first trial. And then returned the next year and we started IODP, the Integrated Ocean Drilling Program, and the Nankai Trough (program). Before that, we took 3D seismic images.

BMR: How did you got involved in the new IODP with Chikyu?

YK: I was involved in 3D seismics and such kind of research group but in 2006, almost ten years after – that was the period of my contract. So I moved to CDEX (Center for Deep Earth Exploration), Chikyu’s support office. They wanted some staff. So I applied.

Yukari, onboard Chikyu. Courtesy of Y. Kido.

BMR: That was at the start of CDEX. So, from your perspective, how was CDEX like? The people, the things you were doing… how did you think about the future of scientific ocean drilling, in those early years?

YK: CDEX was a… Part of research groups, part of government groups, and part of JAPEX and some oil companies’ group. So there were mixtures of many cultures mixtures, and a little of excitement and (laughs) (it was a) fantastic center. My boss was Hawaii University’s Gregory Moore (laughs). He was sitting in the Frontier Center office, and I was involved in the science support promotion office. I was involved in preparing the database system, and Chikyu’s database sampling, and site survey data… That kind of support office. And for drilling itself, for the technical and engineering group, and also the HSC group. So many different international cultures – Greg Moore, and some two or three staff from the US and European countries, and an Australia person… It was very, very interesting. Every day, it was exciting.

BMR: if I understood, the European and Australian people, they were working in their countries, right? So you were exchanging…

YK: I think that at that time they were working here. Yeah, yeah, as staff scientists and HSC officers… Yes.

BMR: Oh, okay. It’s very interesting trying to understand how was CDEX and the kind of things you were working on, and exchanging with people, as you mentioned, from Europe, Australia, public officers… Because this is a very unique feature of a project like IODP or Chikyu. You were not only in a scientific lab, like the ones you were working in before, but you were trying to manage something that was much more complex, right?

YK: Right, right, yes.

BMR: That’s why I was asking those questions.

YK: So it was exciting. At that time, (Asahiko) Taira-san, professor Taira, was the director of CDEX and he knew very well how to communicate with the people in JAPEX and in oil companies. The oil companies had a very advanced technology and… A lot of new technology. So Taira-san involved them in Chikyu’s scientific drilling. That was very, very important. For example, the CT (Computed Tomography) scanner in labo area, the paleomag sealed room… This was the first time onboard that such kind instruments were installed for research in earth sciences and in earthquake research.

BMR: Chikyu was the most advanced drillship at that time.

YK: Yes, yes, I think so. Riser system, first time (for scientific research). And it also had a dynamic positioning system, and azimuth trusters – six azimuth thrusters – to drill in the challenging Kuroshio current. The GPS system, a transponder, a positioning system, and it was using an underwater TV, a deep underwater TV. And in the labo area, there was a big labo management deck, and a big data server, and… yes, a CT scanner, microscopes… (laughs) and geochemical labs, biology labs…

BMR: Like a floating laboratory.

YK: Yes, a floating laboratory, and engineering, and support vessel… It was a very interesting and exciting time.

BMR: About your relation to Chikyu, I know that you have been involved in the NanTroSEIZE Project. So how was that experience like, from your perspective? What has been the development of NanTroSEIZE and the relation with researchers from other countries?

YK: Yeah… The Nankai Trough was a big challenging area. When I came to JAMSTEC, in the subduction zones project, one of the big targets was the Nankai Trough. So many lines across and around the seismic sections, and the reveal 3D seismic model, and 3D plate model. So… I’d like to get the real sampling data, and also logging data. That was very, very exciting for me. Drilling while the physical data set came out, and being able to almost visualize it in life time in the monitor onboard… That was so exciting, and a lot of fun (laughs) I’m very happy to have been involved.

BMR: How did you first get involved in NanTroSEIZE?

YK: I was just a staff member of CDEX, supporting the science research team. In the first year of NanTroSEIZE, Expedition 314, I was a logging support staff. So that’s doing logging science, mainly in Expedition 314. And then, I supported the data management at the labo area. Create the database, and everybody can… [?] J-cores database. And then add data in the database, and register, and then back to the (JAMSTEC) headquarters to do some editing, and then we created a report. Such kind of support, it was the first step.

BMR: What is the difference between a logging scientist from the scientific party and a logging scientist from the science support office?

YK: Mainly, the logging scientists are domestic and international researchers who applied (to the expedition) through the website. In our side we were just staff, support staff, and we worked with the marine technicians. And.. But I was also involved in the science team, just as a support staff.

BMR: What did you enjoy the most of that collaboration?

YK: So many persons from internationally and spending two months together, on board – that’s so exciting. And during shipboard life, the lectures and seminars, on how to use the software, and how to… I was so excited to attend a lecture by a specialist from the logging company, the Schlumberger company. They worked 24 hours in 12-hours shifts, and they prepared the logging tools and the equipment, they did the maintenance, and the digital record. They also taught us on how to get the data – such kinds of lectures. It was so exciting.

BMR: So, the opportunities onboard to meet other people, and learn more about the science, the technologies…

YK: Yes. There is a very, very big variety of backgrounds, and we talked together… Ah, that’s very nice, and an enjoyable time that I spent.

So what has been the thing you’ve find the most valuable and the most difficult or challenging of working with Chikyu, in all these years? Since you started in CDEX until now, that you have recently retired from MarE3.

YK: There are many things I’ve learned. The first, in 2006, that was the first time that I visited the Tobata… the swimming pool at the (JAMSTEC) Headquarters to undertake the BOSIET (Basic Offshore Safety Introduction and Emergency Training) (laughs) Why they require this kind of traning? I deeply understand it. That’s because of the safety first. So that was a big mind change. Science is very important, but safety is first. And then, the Nankai Trough… Also, many proposals came for using Chikyu, for example Shimokita deep biosphere, and the hot regions of the southwest part of Okinawa Through, and Nankai Trough with biospheres target. So many projects came in, so we had to prepare what logging tools were required and suitable to get such datasets and do good science. So many tools but also so big money needed (laughs).

BMR: You mean, you were trying to find the money for the perfect tool.

YK: Yeah. Which tool should be used. Oh, that was a big experience. We tried to spec down the… Actual equipment, and also the backup tools, and get support staff from Schlumberger – hire temporary hires, and offer data support, and write the reports… So many things, I’ve done…

BMR: Before going to some general concluding questions, is there something that you want to talk about that we haven’t?

YK: Thank you very much. I would like to say something more about my 27 years at JAMSTEC period.

BMR: Yes, sure. Please go ahead.

YK: So, I was working on marine geophysics and doing the bathymetry chart, and at the GEDCO Project… That is, the Seabed 2030 Project. I was involved in the project in 2019. So, five years ago. So the Seabed 2030 – it’s almost 5 years more, and we need 100 meter-100 meter grading data. That was a kind of MarE3’s work, I think… they said, “okay, go ahead”. But that was not only MarE3’s work, there were other departments involved. For example data science departments… but, you know the serious problem, the incident that occurred three years ago in JAMSTEC? The website was attached from outside, by a hacker. And then all the databases stopped. After that, we needed to check, and check, and severely check by the system engineering group. So that… before, it was a much easier work, but after that, we needed more checks for security reasons, we tried to double and triple check it (laughs) it took a lot of time. So I was a little bit shocked, and my working time gradually decreased, and decreased. So, the rest of my time I thought that I should share my experience so women who would like to come into this kind of field, and researchers, and… Get good scientists, technicians, give talks… I tried my best to say something and record it. So, I thank you very, very much for your time and for giving me this good opportunity. That’s one thing of that big incident – I learned a lot of data science and security, how to block a database system. How to open the science but… Both are important, open science but protect our database system.

BMR: That’s important to mention, because you have been working with databases for all your career, and in many occasions with data from different institutes. So if I understood it correctly, when databases digitalize and are on the internet, there are now some risks that before were not so strong, right?

YK: Exactly. So, it’s open science and every year we try to compile the data, and combine it together and release the grading data so everybody can access it and create its own map, of the area they want to. But since that time, when the incident occurred, we need much more secure system and to protect the important data, or political issues or… So, while science is much more open, it [?].

BMR: It’s about how to find the perfect balance…

YK: Yes, exactly, how to do a good balance, in a suitable way. That’s what I would like to accumulate, yes, and collaborate with someone who has an interest on it.

BMR: You recently moved to the STEM project. Why this shift?

YK: So the STEM Project… I’m lucky to be involved in the JAMSTEC STEM Project since this April. Why I got involved? I remember the last October this kind of questionnaire came from the Public Relations person. JAMSTEC needed a more appealing STEM Project and STEM education, because MEXT, the government, asked to, JAMSTEC should do much more in STEM projects. So they tried to find the good staff inside JAMSTEC. I replied to the questionnaire, “Oh, I’m very interested in such kind of things.” Because I was a high school teacher, but that was my… a kind of a path in my life. One path was becoming a teacher, but I took a little bit a different path (laughs) so I tried to, again, to do the path of teaching.

BMR: What differences do you see in education between thirty years ago and now?

YK: Thirty years ago I had just a very, very small experience than now. I only had four years off university experience. So, if a student asked me a question, I could only provide a very, very plain answer. But after thirty years, I had many experiences (laughs) studying sea areas, and in onboard research, and in international collaboration, so… In some way I can show them, to the early career or the early student, what my experience was, just for a reference, for their reference, yeah.

BMR: So, how has been your experience as a woman in the field of scientific research?

YK: I was also involved in the Equality Project of the Society of Engineering. And I compared a company, and the community of high-school teachers, and academic scientific institutions… and it’s completely different. No leader, female leader was established inside JAMSTEC. Only one, Harada-san, she will be a leader of the next Arctic expedition, but she moved to the Ocean Research Institute of the University of Tokyo. And Natsue Abe-san. Abe-san is one of the scientist in petrophysics. But still, they are just plain researchers. I asked to someone, “please promote her to group leader, or project leader.” So… Some big project should need female leaders. Outside committee members pointed out, “oh, JAMSTEC has very, very few female researchers.” So we should increase the number (laughs).

BMR: Do you think this is changing?

YK: Yes, we should change it… But not so many changes since I joined 27 years ago (laughs). I would like to work for something much more inclusive… And try to work hard at the STEM project so many young students, and female students, will come to JAMSTEC.

BMR: My last question is… what has been the most rewarding aspect of working in marine geosciences and scientific ocean drilling through your career?

YO: (laughs) That is very difficult. This I would like to try to think about it and I will send you more.

BMR: Okay. Is there anything else you want to add?

YK: It’s okay.

BMR: So thank you very much. It was a big pleasure.

YK: It’s a very big pleasure for me. Thank you for your time and thank you very much for supporting me (laughs).