Yu-Chun Chang

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This transcript is based on a video-recorded interview deposited at MarE3, JAMSTEC (Yokosuka, Japan).

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Interview of Yu-Chun Chang by Beatriz Martinez-Rius on 2024 November 16, D/V Chikyu (Japan). [link]

Beatriz Martinez-Rius (BMR): Today is November 16 of 2024. I am Beatriz Martinez Rius, I am onboard Chikyu on Expedition 405. Can you please tell me your name, affiliation and position?

Yu-Chun Chang (YCC): I’m Yu-Chun Chang. I’m now a JSPS postdoc in JAMSTEC, Institute of Marine Geodynamics.

BMR: Thank you. What kind of studies are you doing? What is your main interest in JAMSTEC?

YCC: My main research in JAMSTEC is to study the paleo-earthquake history in the Kuriles Trench area. That’s about natural hazard assessment and also earthquake history, the frequency of earthquake history.

BMR: How did you get started with this research topic?

YCC: The hazard-associated topic can be traced back to my PhD studies, which was about the hazards around volcanic islands. I am interested in the hazard assessment study because diverse hazards frequently occur in my country, Taiwan. Instead of staying focus on hazards around volcanic islands, I got a chance to work on paleo-earthquake hazard as a postdoc at JAMSTEC after graduation.

BMR: So, tell me, where are you from? What kind of family do you come from?

YCC: I come from Taiwan. Actually, all of my family members are not really familiar with geosciences. Even if we have many hazards in Taiwan, I think they pay more attention on other things. So, when I started my studies in Earth Sciences, I think that many of my family did not really understand what this major are really doing, where I was working… But, after quite a long time – after my undergraduate, master, PhD… I guess they kind of know a more about what I’m doing.

BMR: Why did you choose Earth Sciences?

YCC: I actually was born in a family without too much attention on Geosciences. I think that I got into this Geosciences world also by accident. When we do the university entry exam, at that time, as kids in Taiwan, we have not really started to explore our own interests, what would we love to do… So, at that time, we just make our choice based on the score. That’s why by accident I started my journey in Earth Sciences. But when I got into the Geoscience Department, I was quite enjoying how geoscientists do their research, because I’m also in love with taking pictures outside, and the geoscience study allows me to work and take pictures at the same time. And I also like to study how the Earth works based on the observation from an outcrop, from these rocks and sediments. So, eventually, I think, this accidental choice was quite a nice chance for me to explore another new world.

BMR: When you say by accident, do you mean that you made a mistake when selecting the…?

YCC: I mean, it’s like I just put out every potential department I can get in based on my score. So, I didn’t expect which department I will eventually get in. It’s like, I was expecting what the result would be (laughs).

YCC: So, you just said, whatever comes, I’ll be fine.

YCC: Yeah, I think it’s mostly because I didn’t really hate something, or I don’t really have a huge interest for something in particular. Most of the time, I believe, you just need to spend your time and devote yourself into it, to see what you are interested in. So, sometimes it’s not that you are not interested. It’s just that you don’t have the time and the knowledge to know the different worlds that you are not familiar with. So, that’s why I think that it didn’t bother me on which department I would get in. Because I believe that if you pay your attention and spend your time, everything will become better and better. Something like that. (laughs)

BMR: I understand, yeah. It’s very difficult to choose what you want to do when you are 18 years old. So, where did you study, for your undergraduate?

YCC: In the Earth Science department. So, we had many chances to study traditional Geosciences subjects, like sedimentology, Earth history, seismology… A little bit of marine sciences, also. I started to get more ideas about marine science activities after my master degree.

BMR: Was it in Taiwan, you said?

YCC: Yes, I got my undergrad degree and master’s degree in Taiwan.

BMR: And how did you learn about scientific ocean drilling?

YCC: Like I mentioned, I started to have more knowledge on marine sciences after I graduated from my master degree. At that time, I had a research assistant position at the Institute of Oceanography at the National Taiwan University, and I was an auditor in one lesson. The professor gave a lecture about the marine geosciences’ history in Taiwan. And because I think that Taiwan it’s not a member of IODP, most of us did not have the knowledge about this drilling science programs. But in that lecture, because we only have had one ODP cruise – ODP Leg 195, like 20 years ago, when they drilled around Taiwan. So, there were probably a few chances for geoscientists in Taiwan to have a chance to join this international ocean drilling program. So, in that class, he introduced this kind of international drilling program. That was the first time I learned about these programs. And, back at that time, I thought that it was super cool, because you have many scientists from different countries that stay together on the vessel for one to two months and work on a project with a similarly big goal, even though they are studying it from different aspects. So that’s when I started on this program.

BMR: And why did you apply specifically to this expedition?

YCC: I have to say this is my second attempt to apply for an IODP expedition. The first time is when I was in the UK, after I got my PhD degree, in the University of Manchester. My supervisor encouraged me to apply, “Oh, that is IODP Expedition 398 to the Hellenic Arc”. It’s in Greece’s area. It’s a very touristic area. At that time, I was happy, like, I finally got a chance to join something I was working on, that I was also probably familiar with. I was qualified to apply for IODP, but that was through the European project (note: ECORD) and… the vacancy for the European team is actually quite small, compared to Japan and the United States. So, it was quite competitive to get into that cruise. At that time, I failed. But I think it’s still a quite a nice experience, to try to dream big and apply for a big project.

So, I have a seed of hope buried in deep since then. When I got another chance to start my research journey in Japan, I think that this seed started again. Like, “Oh, it’s going on!”, like, “I got another chance to apply for another expedition”. And, again, this is also another project associated with natural hazards. I already had some ideas and some experience working in another subduction zone in Japan, the Kuril Trench. So, I thought, “Okay, this is the time. I should have more chances and more confidence to apply for this IODP project”. That’s the long story why I applied for this Expedition 405.

BMR: And you made it!

YCC: Yes, now I’m here.

BMR: Why do you think your application got accepted?

YCC: To be honest, I’m not sure. Because for this second application experience, the application and selection procedures are quite complicated. It’s not always based on your science topic, or if you are qualified or not. Sometimes you need to consider, like I said, the vacancy for individual countries. So, sometimes if you fail it’s not because you don’t have a nice project. It’s just that they have different considerations. For me, I’m thinking that maybe also part of the reason (I succeeded) is because a lot of structural geologists are very interested in this expedition, and maybe relatively less sedimentologists are interested in this project. I also tried to strategically write a proposal to avoid too many sample conflicts. Therefore, maybe they think that I will be not the person who will get on board and fight for samples with other people. But I think I also proposed a challenging project for myself. Maybe they also loved my ideas about studying Japan subduction zone area by different approach that is not a traditional or conventional approach.

BMR: What is your approach? May I ask you about that?

YCC: I think that their interest (is mostly) about large scale or microscale approach. Like, they start by looking a large tectonic setting to see how the plate boundary fault moves, and therefore, understand how this mega-earthquake have happened and have generated. And also, they use very high-resolution microscopes to study very fine scale structures preserved in these rocks. But, for me – that I’m a sedimentologist – I tried to study this topic as a sedimentologist. So, I would like to pay more attention to something that maybe they have not paid a lot of attention before. So, let’s say soft sediment deformation, it’s at the scale of several centimeters to tens of centimeters. That’s like a different scale’s approach.

And also, I think that maybe people have paid more attention to the composition of the sediment. For them, this aspect could be one of the most important factors in determining where a large earthquake slip will be generated. But, for me, I’m interested about whether the secondary factors can also contribute something to earthquake generation, eventually becoming a primary impact for earthquake generation. So, I start from something that’s maybe not so important from the perspective of a structural geologist, or geophysicist, or a seismologist. I try to give more attention to something that it’s not important at the first glance. I’m not sure if the results will be good or not, but at least I think it’s worth trying to see if something else is also important for earthquake generation.

BMR: That’s very interesting, especially to see that in this expedition people is studying earthquake generation from so many different perspectives. And then they all come together here. So, you have been here two weeks, already. What has been the thing that has impressed you the most?

YCC: I have to say that working as an international team is quite a nice experience to me.  From my previous research experience, I usually belonged to relatively small groups, the collaboration within the group is close because of the similar goal and complementary research approach. However, I sometimes thought about what is the situation if I work with a bunch of scientists who have different backgrounds and have different ideas about the same issue. So, this is the most interesting part for me, about joining this expedition.

But working with a bunch of scientists is also the challenging part as well, because everybody does science differently. They have different personality; they have different way to do everything. So, your behavior or the way you do science does not always make everybody happy. Especially during the sample request time. If there’s a conflict, there will be an argument, justification, and discussion. Sometimes, it is quite intense. For me that part is the most difficult.

BMR: I understand what you say. At the end of the day, this is part of the working and living together component of these kinds of expeditions. I know you have been in other oceanographic cruises, so I’d like to know some of your thoughts on how is it being in Chikyu during an IODP expedition.

YCC: I have to say that Chikyu is a super big vessel, it’s quite stable, and you have more space than in other smaller vessels. The live in Chikyu is quite nice, because you have nice food, and enough space to do your work. Another thing is that, on Chikyu, everybody will be busy because there are a lot of duties for everyone. So, you cannot go across everything. It is more efficient to focus on your duty and finish your job first. I think that the most different part is that, in a small cruise, sometimes everybody will need to take over everything during a short time. But in Chikyu, there are so many things to do, that sometimes you have to spend most of the time doing one thing. However, we still have chances to swap duties or look around other group, as people eventually will get a little bit tired of what they have been concentrated on. So, it’s still fine with me. But, like I said, you probably have to focus on some duties for a while, which do not allow you to across other things too often.

BMR: I’ve never been in other oceanographic expeditions. So, if I understood it, in smaller ships, smaller expeditions, basically everyone will end up doing almost the same things, or working on the same kind of research? Processing the samples, for example, everyone will do everything.  But here, everyone has its own role.

YCC: Let me clarify more here. On small ships, sometimes you need to get involved in other things. For example, recovering core or instrument. Sometimes, you will have something to do like the technicians do here. And also, we have other analyses can be done on the mission-specific vessel. Here, the main mission for on board sedimentologists is to do  VCD (visual core description) and writing reports. We need to describe the core one after the other. I sometime feel no time to think about the coming results. However, in a smaller vessel, the project is designed based on most of the participants’ interest. We already have some ideas in mind and we can also have further analyses onboard, so we have time to discuss our basic results, what’s our strategy, what will we do next… Therefore, I think, the progress, duties and tempo onboard are a little bit different, compared to onboard Chikyu.

Yu-Chun at work during IODP Expedition 405. Photos by Beatriz Martinez-Rius, IODP/JAMSTEC.

BMR: I see. Where do you see yourself in ten years, after this expedition?

YCC: I think that I will stay in the Marine Geosciences field, but I’m not sure if I will be able to find a permanent job and settle in somewhere. But I think that if I can stay in academia, I will keep paying my attention to the natural hazards, the mechanisms of their generation, and the cycle of these hazards. Because my country also has so many different kinds of hazards… And I believe that drilling or coring work in Taiwan is not as much as in Japan or in the UK. I think it’s like… Not in the beginning stage, but still just a little bit ahead. So, I think that’s why I want to learn from those countries to obtain more experience, background and techniques, and then go back to Taiwan to do some work like what we have done here.

BMR: That’s so nice. Following up with this question, you mentioned that Taiwan is not part of IODP as a member country. But because you are in JAMSTEC, you are coming as a Japanese berth. So, how do you think that scientific ocean drilling, like IODP or IODP³ now, can help or contribute to understand scientific open questions in Taiwan? I’m thinking about natural hazards.

CCY: For me, I tried to apply for the IODP also because I got no chance to go onboard, if I stay in Taiwan. I had the chance to apply for this expedition because I now have a temporary research job in Japan. And also, back in the UK, I had a studentship. I understand the rules for the current IODP (2013-2024). They only allow for the membership countries to embark because they pay money, so their scientists get a chance to join and do the science here. So, I’m thinking about, if we want to advertise the IODP project, Maybe… They can open some opportunities for graduate students to join the expeditions as interns. Because as you saw last week, onboard scientists have many works to do. So, I think, an additional student or helper with the geoscience background would really help to accelerate some routine work. And people would also time to sit down and discuss. And we can also exchange ideas or give lectures to this intern students, to learn and know about why the IODP, the international program, can help the geosciences work to move further. And in the meantime, we don’t need to worry that if we recruit more scientists onboard, they would have more conflicts of sample request. So, I think that providing some intern positions for countries without a membership qualification, for me, could be a nice idea or start to make this project more inclusive.

BMR: That’s actually quite a good idea. I mean, scientific ocean drilling has always been always transforming. And they have been incorporating all changes as the world changes, as money for the project changes…

CCY: I think that, for the new stage of the IODP cube, they are not restricting it only for membership countries. Now, if you have funding to run a project, you can use Chikyu or other mission specific vessel to do the project. But, again, I think it will be great to have more opportunity for the young generation to join the cruises although I understand that running a big cruise need a certain numbers of senior researchers to navigate and manage. From my personal perspective, I would hope that more young generation scientists join these projects, as much as we can. But definitely we need senior ones to carry on the projects (laughs), otherwise I think no one will know what should we do on this super big vessel (laughs).

BMR: Actually, almost one third of the people onboard these days are early career scientists. But I understand what you say. That some countries can potentially become members; but for that, they should have some people onboard who have had some prior experience and opportunities. And a way to do that, is to incorporate master students, PhD, or postdocs who can learn and help to communicate it.

CCY: Yes.

BMR: Is there something else you would like to add?

CCY: I think that’s all, thank you.

BMR: Thank you very much, that was great.