Ulla (Ursula) Röhl

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This transcript is based on a video-recorded interview deposited at MarE3, JAMSTEC (Yokosuka, Japan).

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Please cite the interview as:

Interview of Ursula Röhl by Beatriz Martinez-Rius on 2025 May 2, Vienna International Center (Vienna, Austria). [link]

Beatriz Martinez-Rius (BMR): Today is 1st of May of 2025. I am Beatriz Martinez-Rius, historian of science at JAMSTEC, and I am at the Vienna International Center with Ulla Röhl. Thank you so much.

Ursula Röhl(UR): Yeah, thank you Bea.

BMR: Can you please say your name, your affiliation and position?

UR: My name is Ulla Röhl. I am based at MARUM, Center for Marine Environmental Sciences of the University of Bremen. I am senior scientist at MARUM, and the Director of the Core Repository, as well as manager in the ESO Science Operator (ECORD Science Operator).

BMR: For how long have you been involved in scientific ocean drilling?

UR: I’ve been involved for a long, long time. My first getting in touch with anything on scientific ocean drilling was when I was a PhD student, and I was the student assistant of a scientist who sailed on a DSDP expedition. I was feeling really special at that time, that I was trusted to work up on these samples and its grain size analysis. So, this was really, really special at that time. I was a student, graduate student, at the University of Bonn in Germany.

BMR: And you actually continue kind of in contact with the cores, with the samples.

UR: Yeah, yeah. I realized it’s really a special program, and international, the collaborators of my supervisor… This was totally new, at that time, which was in the late 70s.

BMR: So, let’s start from the beginning and then we proceed chronologically. Where are you from and what kind of background, childhood education, do you come from?

UR: I grew up at what it’s called the Lower Rhine area in Germany, in the northwest of Germany, about a hundred kilometer north of Dusseldorf. I think it is quite well-known big city at the Rhine, in Germany. In a smaller town – at that time, maybe 10,000 or so inhabitants. My parents, my father was a banker and my mother was, during most part of my childhood, she was at home taking care of me and my sister. My mother really infected me about getting interested in natural sciences. She showed me all – even I was very, very young, she showed me the flowers and all of this. I was really interested. And as a kid – in this area, there are the outgoing areas of the Ruhr area mining, which is not existent any longer. There is no coal mining any longer, for some years already, but at that time, it was not in the center but in the rim parts of it. So, next to our town, there was an overburden deposit of the coal mining, the non-coal residue, rocks and mud, are piled. And we, as kids, were just playing everywhere. I loved to play on this because I found plant fossils from the Carboniferous times. And this really intrigued me, “Why is that?” And I told my mother. I really loved it.

So, instead of enjoying wearing nice dresses, which I was supposed to at that time – that seems centuries ago – I really loved to get into the dirt because there were still plant remains from actual coal. And, yeah, that is where it all began.

BMR: Was this what sparked your interest in earth sciences? The reason to go into geology?

UR: In natural sciences in the first place, but I also had an aunt, the sister of my father, who was very interested in geology – even she was not a scientist. And then, a teacher at high school. Normally, in Germany and especially then, there is no geology teaching at German schools; but he was a geography teacher who was interested in geology, and he really got me to get interested in more detail. There’s this funny thing – I had to write an exam on the geology of South America, and I’ve done this in one page (laughs). I still have it. It’s really, really funny today.

BMR: The entire exam?

UR: In the geography exam, the written part, the theme was to write something on the geology of South America and cover it all in one A4 page (both laugh). And that is how I got interested in looking into geology.

BMR: How did you move into marine geology?

UR: During my studies, I was at the University of Bonn both for the undergraduate and graduate. At that time, there was also the German train tracks upgrade. They were building a lot of new train tracks, digging tunnels, and there were a lot of new outcrops in Mesozoic rocks, especially in the Middle Triassic, the Muschelkalk. I was put as a PhD student on these rocks and in these outcrops. These were new outcrops, and there was this tunnel progressing drilling machine getting forward and I was working behind it, and behind me there were trucks who were covering the outcrops with concrete. So, I had to come at the right time to be able to look at the sections and to sample the sections. But these were great outcrops and, of course, the Middle Triassic contain marine successions so, I got interested in the marine and I did a lot of geochemical analysis also on these, which were new, at the time.

Then, I looked out for postdocs, maybe on more marine work. After I got my PhD, I got the chance to do a postdoc on ODP material at the Marine Geology Unit of the Federal Institute for Geosciences and Natural Resources, the BGR.

BMR: Where is it?

UR: In Germany, in Hannover, and there was a marine geology unit at that time. One of the scientists had sailed as Co-chief scientist on ODP Leg 122 to the Exmouth Plateau, offshore northwest Australia. And there were also these mid-Triassic rocks, unforeseen recovered at these sites. Prognosis before the expedition was to come into a continuous succession of going back in time from nowadays to the whole Cenozoic, into the Jurassic; but there was this gap, which was not known before, from Cretaceous directly into the Triassic. I had experience in the Middle Triassic, in the marine rocks, and I got tied. And this was the key. My first time of more direct involvement in the ocean drilling program, even I didn’t sail on that one yet but, for me, it was the gate to the world of ODP, at that moment.

BMR: Was there someone influential in shaping this research interest towards paleoclimate?

UR: Yeah. In part, it was my interest which kind of naturally evolved from the type of projects I had as graduate student, being a graduate student and early postdoc, but it was also the kind of projects that were available and I was hired for. So, in large parts just a coincidence, I would say.

BMR: And what attracted you, what made you stay in that research field?

UR: Of course, like so many people, I love the ocean. As family, when I was a school kid, we made a lot of holidays at the North Sea, at the Dutch North Sea coast, and this was just great. This never stopped. It even got worse, my love to be at sea and going to the coast in any country. So, I found it very interesting. And with time, you also focus your research a little bit more on that. Then later, I transferred to the University of Bremen. I was invited to build up a non-destructive measurements laboratory, which was new at that time. And then, simultaneously, I changed to the bit younger part of the time scale, to the Cenozoic. This was like a natural way for me and all the projects I was working on, and the chances I was given during this time.

Then, I got very much interested into the early Paleogene which was a very much warmer time than, for example, nowadays. When I was a school kid, we had been told that for example, the Eocene, which is one part of this early Paleogene, was boringly hot and it was just homogeneous. Then I got interested – like very often during my career – I got interested in looking at these open questions that people were saying, “It’s not really for us to look into; there’s nothing really about it”. This triggered me even more, for sure, to look into this.

And then, again the ocean drilling programs, because at that point it just had been started and the (advanced) hydraulic piston coring was invented, which improved the core quality – in the DSDP days, most of the time, they only did rotary drilling. Then, in the ODP, the piston coring was imposed by introducing the hydraulic piston coring system. And at the same time, they started drilling transects, first for Neogene sections like in the equatorial Pacific like Leg 138, for example, and so on. When I came into place, they also started drilling transects for Paleogene sediments. And this was totally a change, because before, the stratigraphic relation of some clay layers was totally unknown. And the people were thinking, “Maybe it’s the same, or maybe these are different clay layers”. It was unknown because there were far too less sections that this time interval.  Only rotary drilled single holes and even only spot cored – so drilled, but not continuously cored. And then, there were these legs, for example, 198 to the Shatsky Rise, or later, the Walvis ridge with transects dedicated to the Paleogene. And this was great.

BMR: What was your first expedition?

UR: My first expedition was ODP Leg 143, “Atolls and Guyots”. It was aimed to drill into the guyots, the sunken atolls and flat-topped atolls (‘guyots’). These guyots consists of basically Cretaceous rudists reefs, with a pelagic cap on it. And because I came from the Middle Triassic shallow water sediments, I was very much interested in the diagenesis, at that time, of these rudists reefs, and reconstructing the sea level and different diagenetic history.

This was my first-time sailing, and I was very impressed coming from Germany, joining the JOIDES Resolution. My first impression I clearly remember was, on the pier I got off a shuttle or bus, there were women directing the crane operators. So, there were women on the crane, standing there, doing this, and I said, “Oh, wow! This is the US!”, This was not known to me at all in Germany, Europe, or so. And I thought, “Oh my God, I’m at the right place!” (laughs).

BMR: So, the expedition departed from the US, you said?

UR: Yeah, from Honolulu. Yeah.

BMR: Oh, I see! So, quite an experience not only going to the US, but to Hawaii!

UR: Yeah (laughs).

BMR: At which career stage were you, then?

UR: I was a postdoc; early postdoc.

BMR: You mentioned that some professor let you work with the samples from DSDP. What was the knowledge in German institutions about ocean drilling, at the time? I mean, was it something well-known among your peers, the PhD and postdoc students?

UR: When I was a student assistant, as I mentioned at the beginning, working with the professor who was actually sailing on a DSDP expedition, I think Germany had just become a member of the DSDP. It started as a pure American project, and only in the mid-70s or so, Germany became a member, I think in 1974. I don’t know really, but around this time. So, it was not widely known. It was not known to me, being a graduate student and an undergraduate student, but I knew there were these green volumes in the Geological Institute’s Library. And I thought, “Oh, what’s this? It is all in English and must be important project” – you know, very basic things like this (laughs).

BMR: What was this expedition on the JR your first international collaboration, like close collaboration with non-German scientists?

UR: Not first collaboration, because before I had a postdoc project where I was a postdoc of a Co-chief of expedition [Leg] 122. And there, we had a lot of collaboration with, I remember, Italian, French, and American scientists. It was a time before emailing. Nowadays, in some moments I still think about it, because you were writing a letter – because sending a fax was relatively expensive –, so I was supposed to send a letter and mailed it, snail mailed it, to Italy or the US. And then, if you were glad, three weeks later you got an answer. We also managed it; but today everything is faster, quicker…

BMR: I guess… It made you think more on what you wanted to say. Because now we exchange emails and are superfast, so we don’t really devote that time to thinking on a single message.

UR: Yeah, you were working all the day on the wording of the letter, not to forget anything, add the right figures or plot… More focusing and not, click, click, and then – Oh, I forgot this! So, it is not that we achieved less, it’s not really the case. It’s just that we are busier all the time, but we don’t achieve much more. That is my vision of this.

That is also true for making figures. I remember this postdoc project in the late-80s for ODP Leg 122, when I was making figures for the publications; there was no computer. There was one, especially in this federal institute, big federal institute, there was a supercomputer  [Mainframe computer] somewhere of IBM, filling many rooms. Staff had maybe what was called a terminal, which was a monitor and the line to the big computer. But there were no applications. There was only a basic editing program to write text, but there was nothing for figures. And so, I had to draw the figures myself with black ink on big transparent paper, and then photographically a negative was taken, and the negatives were in European A3 to A4 format; but this was already great because the original (painting) was bigger than a poster nowadays.

You had to think a lot, during this process, you had mechanically to do the painting, and erasing with some knife (razor blade). So, thinking on what you wanted to present because it was such a huge effort, to get these figures together.

BMR: Someone told me recently about this, actually, similar idea – that making the figure by hand made you think more, and pay more attention to it.

UR: Yeah, exactly. Not click, click; plot here, plot there, and not understanding anything (laughs).

Life on board during ODP Leg 198 on Shatsky Rise (Pacific Ocean). In the right photo, Ulla (second from left) is enjoying a JOIDES Resolution weekly bbq with Stuart Robinson (UK), Tim Bronk (chemistry lab) and Kristen Averyt (USA). In the right picture, ODP curator Kim Bracci and co-chief scientists Tim Bralower and Isabella Premoli-Silva instruct on core sampling procedures. Ulla is standing third from the right. Credit: IODP/JRSO.

BMR: How that first expedition shaped your next steps in your in your career?

UR: Of course, I loved to be at sea. I loved international, multidisciplinary collaboration. I realized immediately, on day one on the ship, that this is a huge source to evolve, and to learn, and to give and get; it was outstanding. That is why I kept with this; keep trying to continue in ocean drilling expeditions and projects, and started to get involved also in proposal writing. At the same time, because I was very close spatially and organizationally to the German ODP office – I also was working in the German ODP office for some years – I think two and a half or three years –, organizing the German annual meetings or helping to organize them; interacting with German scientists, when they were attending panel meetings from the program, traveling to port calls, and so on. I enjoyed it early (on).

I was not like some people who only want to focus on research, on science, and saying, “This is wasting time”, but I enjoyed committee work from the beginning. That is a mix of doing research myself and being involved in panels, management, organization of the program.

BMR: What’s the part or aspect that you think you learned the most, during that time in the ODP Germany office?

UR: That was the first time I was involved in organizing parts of an international program of the, in this case, German community. The German community, of course, was there because they were interested, but even educating, and involved in training, and being enthusiastic about the program itself, and trying to transfer it especially to – I was very young then – but even to younger people.

It was at that time that I met a lot of PhD students who were working on ODP material but hadn’t been there, hadn’t been given really a lot of background from the entities or supervisors directly. So, it was good to meet them on the German meetings. At that time, more phone calls were made (than today) – phoning me up and so on (laughs).

BMR: Just after the ODP, IODP came up. What was your role or position in the transition from one program to the other? Where were you at that time?

UR: From ODP to Integrated Ocean Drilling Program? Meanwhile, I was already some time at the University of Bremen and busy with the non-destructive measurements Lab and with my own research projects. Then, some initiative started to get Europe together, on how to join the Integrated Ocean Drilling Program. And, you know, this was the first time and there was not just an American drilling vessel but also, as we found out later, a Japanese vessel, and the Mission Specific Platform concept of the European partners.

So, already two years or so before ODP ended, the first meetings started and my supervisor at the time at the University of Bremen was invited to these meetings, but he asked me to attend meetings. And I never gave it up again (laughs). So, I was in the preparatory meetings. I’m among the few people who got started, that was just less than a handful of individuals in the involvement of ECORD in IODP.

BMR: Can you tell me more about the creation of ECORD? Now that I know you were one of only a handful of people, I can only ask you (both laugh).

UR: At that time [we were a handful]; now there are many more. But in this pre-phase before ECORD was founded, we had a lot of meetings on who in Europe could potentially provide which services, or has which facilities, which could be used. The Bremen Core Repository existed already since 1994, almost eight or nine years before the start of IODP in Bremen. So, it was pretty clear that Bremen probably should play a role.

Also, not just because of the repository, the collection itself, which at that time was a sub-repository from the Gulf Coast repository in the US; but also, we had a lot of facilities like in the non-destructive measurements laboratory. And, in general, everyone at Bremen and the Geoscience Department was very much interested to open their labs, to also make measurements on drilling programs’ material, and so on. There were others who were involved in downhole logging already in ODP times, and in operations… So, that is how it got together in the end, and European partners together formed this consortium – the European Consortium of Ocean Research Drilling. Later, also Canada became a member.

BMR: What was the vision at that time about ECORD? What was the expected role of ECORD?

UR: To provide Mission Specific Platform expeditions, and this initially meant to fill the gaps to go to areas where the big drilling vessels cannot go (to), like ice-covered areas – that is this very famous first ECORD expedition, IODP Expedition 302 in the Arctic Ocean – ACEX, or shallow water, like the New Jersey shallow shelf was drilled; and reefs, Tahiti, the fossil reefs offshore Tahiti and later at the Great Barrier reef. These are all locations where vessels like the JR, not to talk about Chikyu, cannot go and drill. Also, reef limestones are very special and very hard to drill, so the aim was also maybe to optimize, to maximize, core recovery. And this was a big success, which is very difficult for, for example, for the JR it was difficult. Like my first expedition to Cretaceous [rudists] reefs, recovery was okey-ish, but not too good.

And then, also going to drill in areas where there are physical barriers like gates or bridges which are too low, like the Baltic Sea or the Gulf of Corinth, where there are bridges where the JR cannot go under. Also, at the other side of the Gulf of Corinth, there’s a small gate. It’s too small that the JR wouldn’t fit. So, this was totally new, to add to these capabilities in addition to the big drilling vessels.

BMR: What were the challenges at the beginning of ECORD, to make these international structures that didn’t exist before to thrive or survive?

UR: Of course, the financial commitment of the different countries. And, you know, there was no vessel or platform which was a science drilling vessel, already. So, there were basically no labs at all in commercial vessels. It was just us building mobile labs in the form of lab containers. And this, of course, has a lot of challenges. Then you have to plug them onboard, which sounds easy but – now we know a lot of things to clarify beforehand; the white water, water quality, power, and so on – but, we managed. This was a lot of work, and it keeps being a lot of work. You have to maintain and adapt to new methods.

It was very important that we did this, because the science community shouldn’t tell the difference between cores drilled by the Chikyu, or by the JR, or by a Mission Specific Platform, in terms of curatorial handling standard measurements, and so on.

So, we had to bring some instruments offshore, but we couldn’t bring everything offshore, like the core flow well- known from JR or Chikyu, because these (MSP) platforms are usually smaller than the big drilling vessels. And so, it was decided to only do things offshore that needs to be done, because you need this data to further influence drilling decisions; or whether the properties are gone if you don’t measure them immediately. This is especially, for example, in saving core material for biogeochemistry, organic geochemistry, microbiology purposes early on. They have to be removed from the core right away and then treated, or deep frozen, and so on. Or like alkalinity, salinity, pH… You have to measure all these (ephemeral) proxies in pore water also right away. This is done on all MSPs expeditions.

This was also totally a new way. We have an onshore part, which is at MARUM, in Bremen, where we initially open the cores, splitting in two halves. We do not do it offshore because if you would do it and the core surfaces are exposed to oxygen, then you have to do some more measurements, and there’s not enough space to do all these measurements (at sea).

So, that is why the core splitting into halves is diverted to the onshore. And then, all the other measurements, like on the JR or Chikyu, are done. So later, in the database, you have the great legacy information for all cores drilled, with any other ship.

BMR: It is actually very interesting, this point of making all the cores equal in the sense of same standards, same measurements, even they are recovered with different platforms. It kind of makes me think in the new needs that keep appearing in the history of scientific ocean drilling.

UR: Yeah. It goes parallel to policies, and the writing up of the MSP or Chikyu standard measurements… There are some differences depending on the platform, but basically, it is the same. All kind of data will be measured no matter what. So, for example, cores are firstly split and you take a picture, a line scan, which for us means a lot of data. You measure color reflectance to have all this color information. This needs to be done, and it’s independent if maybe an individual thinks, “Oh, I don’t care about color measurements”; but somebody else will care. And it’s important to save the data at the moment where there are there and not later – “Oh, I should have done this. And, why I didn’t…?” (laughs). It’s also a lot of expectation management for all these international, scientific participants.

BMR: I’d like to move and talk about the core repository, but before there’s one more question about your scientific life, or career, about the expedition you were Co-chief scientist. How come that you become Co-chief, what was your relation to that proposal? And how your perspective on science changes from being a member of the scientific party to becoming the Co-chief scientist?

UR: First of all, this expedition was, for me, a logical continuation to what I had done before. I have to say the proposal itself was in the system for, I think, 16 years or so beforehand. And the reason that I became one of two Co-chief scientists was, I was not on the proposal, I was not involved in this because it started very early when I was not around – for sure, I was not ready yet to do that. But all the people on the proposal, I think they were all retired (laughs). I had this story/background of sailing, and working, and publishing on results from expeditions in other oceans or other parts of the oceans for the same scientific problem and so, that is why I made it as one of the Co-chief scientists on this expedition. That is how, I think, I made it to this expedition.

This was really targeting a missing link. There had been a lot of drilling more in the lower or subtropical areas, but in these high latitudes, less targeted – still nowadays – they are far away from anything and is hard to get a ship there; it is very expensive to get a ship there, long transits, and everything. Usually, there are not enough proposals to plaster the transit with several expeditions at one time. So, it’s very difficult. One reason this expedition or the proposal was highly ranked, I think, relatively early on but it never made it to be implemented, is because of its remote location. It never happened that the JR was in this area, anyway. And that is why it took so long. Then, it was a missing link in the high latitudes, of course, so information, what was going on there, is equally – if not even more – important than lower latitudes. We were after early Paleogene events, especially the PETM (Paleogene-Eocene Thermal Maximum), which is a major event in Earth’s history, big global warming event, and a stratigraphic boundary was put on this event. It was the first time that a stratigraphic boundary was put at a chemical anomaly. Normally, stratigraphic boundaries are somewhere in an outcrop and you see a dark layer or something, and then there is this golden spike. This was the first time that the carbon isotope excursion defined the boundary between the Paleocene into Eocene. That is why it is called Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum. When I started to work on this event, it was still the Late Paleocene Thermal Maximum. It was re-defined later, in relation to the new stratigraphic boundary.

Ulla was co-chief scientist of IODP Expedition 378, South Pacific Paleogene Climate. In both pictures, she is smiling with Deborah Tomas (Texas A&M University, USA), the other co-chief scientist — out for the beginning of operations and wearing the immersion suits. Credit: Tim Fulton, IODP/JRSO.

BMR: So, this was a direct outcome from this expedition?

UR: No, no. This was already before. So, for example, in 1995 I sailed on Expedition 165, which is in the Caribbean Sea. We also drilled a lot of older formations, like Cenozoic into Cretaceous successions, there. And my papers from this expedition are always about the LPTM: Late Paleocene Thermal Maximum. It was between then, and the next time I sailed was in 2000, I think, in the Tasman Sea. Then, it was already called PETM, I think. On the Shasky Rise, in 2001 [ODP Leg 198), we were at sea on September 11, 2001.

But this is just a stratigraphic definition issue, that there was something special with this event. Was known since very early 90s only, and at that time – I think it was Ellen Thomas – she is a benthic foraminifera specialist, she defined it as a benthic foraminifera extinction event. So, it was a BFEE and that was initially the only thing known, that 90% of benthic foraminifera got extinct at this event. This pointed already that something happened near or at the seafloor, with the benthic foraminifera. Whereas the planktonic foraminifera and other planktonic organisms were less affected. So, it was relatively new, when I started working on it. During my PhD and early postdoc, second postdoc, I was always interested in cyclic sedimentation. No matter which time interval it was, I was always interested in the wiggles and the cyclostratigraphy, which later was astronomical tuning, rhythmic sedimentation. This is a red line throughout my career.

BMR: What were for you the biggest results of that expedition?

UR: The one in which I was Co-chief scientist?

BMR: Yeah.

UR: We are still working on it, by the way. There was a relatively deep hole, more than a kilometer or so, and we got a succession which was drilled in multiple holes and continuously cored. There was an old DSDP site, DSDP Site 277, which was drilled there already ages ago. But this was a single hole, only, and not continuously cored; only spot-core recovery. And this is a different world. That expedition (IODP Exp. 378) was heavily suffering from the Covid-19, because we got back from board and went directly into it – for example, I had to go to lockdown directly back in Germany. I was away for a long time. I got home from Tahiti, and then – boom! Working from home, because the university was closed. So, no sample party. All the science party members didn’t receive samples for long time, because also GCR, the Golf Coast Repository, was closed; the labs closed… It is now five years later, but we are still working on it. But it is a tremendous success, to have these holes from A to E, multiple holes at this position in higher latitudes. Also, a postdoc working with me in this project, from Bremen, she presented on this conference (EGU 2025) on her results.

BMR: How your experience in science, in ODP and IODP, has helped you in setting or understanding other kinds of international collaborations and projects?

UR: I think I was all the time only working in international projects (laughs). Of course, by nature of these expeditions, you get to know a lot of people, you find that you can combine your knowledge, expertise… It is more fun to collaborate than say, “I’ll do it by myself, and by only me…”. So, it was for me natural, and I was very lucky with all these expeditions. There were always great people, there were no problems socially or scientifically… This was great. I was very lucky, maybe, in this respect (laughs).

BMR: Let’s talk a bit about the core repository. I was recently in the Kochi Core Center (Japan) interviewing the people there, so maybe I can ask you some of the same questions.

UR: Sure.

BMR: It has surprised me that you mentioned that the Bremen core repository existed before ECORD started in the Integrated Program [Integrated Ocean Drilling Program]. How is that?

UR: It was there before, yeah. It was in the nineties, early to mid-nineties, that the US decided, “Maybe it would be good not to have all the repositories in the US”. At that time, there were only repositories in the US. There was the Gulf Coast Repository, but there was also an East Coast Repository at Lamont and a West Coast Repository at Scripps. The ODP had started and so, maybe first repositories also filled up or went in the direction to fill up. And for some reason they said, “Maybe we should put off a call and see if any other country or institute could provide this service”. Maybe it could also be attractive in terms of the cost or something like this. So, Gerold Wefer, at that time he was the head of Bremen Geosciences, put in a proposal. So, amazingly, he got the repository and since then (1994), all the cores from the Atlantic Ocean, Arctic Ocean, Mediterranean, Black and Baltic seas, are stored in Bremen.

It started slowly – first we got the new cores, it started in July 1994. There are now 30 plus years that BCR [Bremen Core Repository] exists. Later, there was a general ‘core redistribution project’, it was called. It was between 2006 and 2009. It was also when the Kochi Core Center had opened. So, Bremen had the repository and at that point, I was not at the University of Bremen yet, but I was in the official opening of the repository as a representative of the German ODP office. You know, Hannover to Bremen is only an hour or so drive. My boss at that time and myself went to this opening. It was very funny, because at that point I had no clue that a little bit more than a year later, I started working at the Geosciences Department.

I had no direct connection to the Core Repository, but as I already mentioned, I was targeted to get a lab with non-destructive measurements together. So, the first instrument we got was a multi-sensor core logger, and it was put into the lab of the Repository, at that time, which was not on campus yet but in an area, in an empty warehouse of the former Bremen port. one could easily get big space, and put such a room cell into it for reefer and the labs in the front of the building.

I went there regularly, first the multi-sensor core logger, and then we started pretty soon also with XRF scanners, first one instrument, and a second instrument later. There was also a lot of travel of scientists to Bremen to use these scanners, especially because the X-Ray fluorescence scanner was totally new in the late-nineties. So, my imagination still is everybody in the world came traveling to Bremen, to see and utilize this instrument. Like Nick Shackleton, a very famous paleoceanographer, and everybody came… Because now there are tens of other instruments worldwide in other institutes, but it was totally new. So, we were working sometimes around the clock, and… except Christmas, but (laughs), busy all the time. And this didn’t really change. Now we have three of these XRF scanners, but that is how it started.

At the same time, the preparation of ECORD started and I joined the meetings, as I described earlier. This is when I was connected closer, presenting the repository – even at that point not being yet in charge. In 2005, the MARUM building opened. MARUM was an entity since a few years before, but then the MARUM building was built (and opened). The repository moved on campus, into the MARUM building, and the labs were moved there. I was in charge – or, still I am in charge – of it, and then I was directly connected to the repository, working for the ocean drilling part.

BMR: For someone who doesn’t know what scientific ocean drilling is, what a core repository is – and how would you explain the importance of the repository?

UR: The repository is extremely important and it is a highly valuable collection because we, repositories in general, archive the history of the Earth. And it is very interesting. These are history textbooks, if you want, and the cores, and the layers in the cores, and the time represented in the cores, are the pages in this history book. So, we can turn the pages by studying these cores. This is extremely important not only to know what was going on in the past, but everybody needs information to understand processes and then utilize this understanding of processes to understand what will happen to planet Earth in the future with climate change, for example, and other different aspects – there’s climate variability but there’s also tectonics, volcanism, plate configurations that changes over time… It’s a tremendous collection. Each piece of the almost 300.000 pieces, core sections, we have in our repository in Bremen.

BMR: Great. I know that you recently were appointed Head of the Core Repository, if I got it right.

UR: The Bremen Core Repository was always an ‘IODP’ Core Repository in MARUM; but we also have the MARUM piston core collection, which is a MARUM repository. At that time, in 2022, everything was merged under the same management, also the labs and the facilities, at the same time, also became an independent group. Different collections, all the people, all the facilities. This is a new structure in MARUM and this is why – before I was overseeing the ocean drilling string, but since then, is a group in charge of all of it. So, it is a kind of widening responsibility. It was ocean drilling only, and just a repository; and now it is different core collections and more facilities and people.

BMR: How does it feel?

UR: I mean… I am into it for so long. I was already for twenty years before this new structure was established, which is not really a matter internationally, but locally… Before it was always the director of MARUM or a professor who was the supervisor, but now I am in charge of it.

BMR: What’s your vision? Where do you like to bring or steer all this complex of repository, institution, research center…?

UR: I think it was a big improvement, to have a big umbrella for all of it. It is good for the team, specially. There was all this “my cores, your cores…” But now, it is all “our cores” but different responsibilities. International collection is open internationally, and national or local collection probably not, and these kinds of things. So, different effects to maximize the work and… to be more efficient in (many) ways. The good thing is, MARUM now got a new building, recently. In early March it was formally opened, so they provided us with a new core reefer. And this is really great, especially these days. So, we are ready now for the new cores to come, also from the International Ocean Drilling Programme, IODP³.

BMR: My last question would be, what has been the most valuable you take from your career involved in scientific ocean drilling?

UR: From my perspective, I can only list positive experiences. To be part of the program, to be part of an international community, to be also the German part or the European part of this community. I made very good experiences; positive experiences. There was more value on it on collaborating. It is not giving something away; it was to maximize our efforts by sharing – you measure these samples; I measure this samples… So, it kept going, or keep going, to maximize the knowledge, the data, the early career scientists… We also do a lot of early career training at Bremen, the ECORD Summer Schools that started already in 2007. These meanwhile in two different formats. This is important and became more important for me more recently, to transfer my experience, positive experience, excitement, engagement… also to younger generation. They are the key for all of us (laughs).

BMR: That is been great. Thank you very, very much.

UR: Yeah, it was fun, and I am not tired at all! (both laugh).