Piero Bellanova

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This transcript is based on a video-recorded interview deposited at MarE3, JAMSTEC (Yokosuka, Japan).

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Interview of Piero Bellanova by Beatriz Martinez-Rius on 2024 November 22, D/V Chikyu (Japan). [link]

Beatriz Martinez-Rius (BMR): Today is November 22nd of 2024. I am onboard Chikyu, in expedition 405. Thank you. Can you say your name, affiliation and position?

Piero Bellanova (PB): My name is Piero Bellanova. I’m a postdoc at RWTH Aachen University University in Germany, and I’m working at the Institute of Neotectonics and Geohazards.

BMR: Is your name Italian?

PB: Yes. I’m half Italian. My father is Italian, my mom was German.

BMR: What are your research interests? In general, not only for this expedition.

PB: In general, I come basically from the coastal area. I started with my bachelor’s and master’s both in Chile, with some tsunami research. Basically, since 2011 I do tsunami research, and then at some point I was also interested in, of course, where the tsunamis are coming from. So, also in the offshore part. Since 2018, it was the first time on a ship, and since then I was part of [IODP Expedition] 386 and 405.

BMR: And how does a German end up doing tsunami research?

PB: Yeah, it’s actually a good question. I was in my bachelors and I always liked natural hazards. And I was either going to the volcano thing, but then I got the offer from a professor to do fieldwork for six weeks in Chile, that was based on tsunami stuff. And I said, “Yes”. Since then, I kind of fell in love with it.

BMR: Field work in Chile sounds like something nice to do, something different. At what stage was it, again?

PB: That was my Bachelor. So, six weeks in Chile for my Bachelor, and six weeks in Chile for my Master. It was part of a PhD project from someone else, and I was basically a student assistant in the field, but then was able to do my theses. I wrote my first paper, also, for my master’s thesis.

BMR: It should be interesting, to go in such an early stage so far away, a sort of exotic area…

PB: Yeah, and also spending time in the field for long time. Today, I feel like most students don’t do that anymore. Many students want to do maybe like GIS work or stuff from home, and not many geologists go out there anymore. So, it’s more like Google Earth geology by now (both laugh).

BMR: Why did you choose Earth sciences in the first place?

PB: Already in high school I liked geo-classes. They were more like geography and human geography, but every single time I asked like, “Yeah, but why is it the soil fertile?”, “Oh, because there’s a volcano in Indonesia”, or something like this. So, I became interested during high school in geo-topics. And then… One of my teachers – I mean, I was always kind of the clown, right? (laughs) maybe I still am. So, one of my teachers basically said, “You will never do anything like natural science related, because you’re not good at it”. He was a physics teacher, and he was basically telling me that I could pass the class if I don’t interrupt the class anymore. And that, also, when people say like I can’t do something, that triggers me. So, I kind of wanted to do it, get a natural science bachelor, master, and PhD, just to show.

BMR: And here you are! And in an exceptional setting, because being onboard is not something that all the geo-related scientists will get to experience.

PB: Yeah.

BMR: So, how did you learn about scientific ocean drilling, for the first time?

PB: I didn’t know much about it. I was basically forwarded the call for [IODP expedition] 386, because I worked onshore in Japan for my PhD. I was forwarded the call and was like, “yeah, you did the nearshore – offshore stuff in Spain and Portugal. Maybe this is interesting for you”. I applied and I didn’t expect to be taken, to be allowed to be a member of IODP 386, because I’m not doing any offshore stuff until that time. I was like solely focusing on this onshore stuff. But, for some reason, I was allowed to join. It was also difficult during Covid, this 386, and I was only to be an onshore scientist. But I was part of it.

I felt very out of place in the first time. This time, I know more, and I know some of the acronyms which people throw around all the time. But the first time was kind of scary, because … I had no one affiliated to me. There were lots of people at 386, and it felt like they knew each other for a long time, because they had been on expeditions together before; or this person is a postdoc or PhD student from one of the PIs, basically. And I was kind of alone – like, I have no clue about ocean science, ocean drilling, coming from onshore… But in the end, it worked out.

BMR: You mentioned that you had been working onshore in Japan. How this connection developed? How did you move from Chile to Japan, and then to ocean drilling?

PB: The full story was: bachelor and master in Chile, and then I took almost a year, when I was at the USGS as a visiting scientist. I worked in Hawaii and in California a lot. So, I started working on the Pacific and I continued afterwards, too. Then, after my year at the USGS, I started my PhD in Germany. And with this, I started basically a project in Japan.

Now, this is in the second phase again. Just this August I was again in Japan, working onshore. I did my PhD focused on the 2011 tsunami deposits. The 2011 [earthquake and tsunami] was such a disaster because it was underestimated. So, all tsunami research until 2011 was based on sand deposits, and the 2011 [tsunami], especially in Sendai – where we came from with the helicopter – showed that the sand limit only goes 60% inland of the total inundation. That means, about 40% was not accounted for. And all the coastal infrastructure is planned based on a predecessor event, the 869 Yogen event. Well, first of all, the Yogen might have been even a bit smaller than the 2011 in terms of magnitude. And, on top of that, if you just look at the sand limit, that would be 60%. So, your tsunami wall might be 40% underestimated. And that was what happened.

And so, we tried to find a methodological solution on how to find this 40%, which are the muds coming after the tsunami. This is what we call it the invisible tsunami, because it’s basically just mud. And the further the tsunami inundates inland, the less marine sources have, because all the sand it’s now like three kilometers far away and it has eroded more and more of the soil. So, we tried biomarkers and it worked quite well. That was basically my PhD working on this method, looking in different places if I can find the actual inundation distance or at least extend to the current knowledge.

Piero (left) and Morgane Brunet (right) taking together samples from the just-recovered cores, during IODP Expedition 405 on Chikyu. Photos by Beatriz Martinez-Rius, JAMSTEC/IODP.

BMR: That’s super interesting. I’m wondering what attracted you about Japan?  Is it the tsunami and the geology, or is it Japan itself? Or both?

PB: I was just a bachelor student when 2011 happened. I was a student, and I kind of watched the live stream of Fukushima, the tsunami, and everything happening. And, for me, it was not really comprehensible why this could have happened in the first place, especially because one year before there was a tsunami in Chile, and just a few years before, there was 2004 tsunami in Boxing Day, Indonesia. And, I mean, especially the Fukushima disaster, I didn’t understand why this could happen, especially because in Japan you have the best prepared country for something like this. I didn’t choose Japan myself, basically. There was the offer – there’s this PhD project for Japan, and I said: yes, because I came back from the USGS to Germany and I didn’t have nothing, basically. I was offered this position, and I was happy to take it. Since then, I liked working in Japan.

BMR: So, then you got involved in your first expedition, which was this IODP 386.

PB: I did a small one before with a German research vessel. I think it was December or November 2018, before Covid-19.

BMR: And the IODP one was an onshore expedition.

PB: Yes. The Kaimei went offshore, but it was just Japanese. So, all the international offshore scientists were not allowed because of Covid-19. It was an all Japanese crew going on Kaimei, taking the first giant piston core. I think they set some of the new records in [expedition] 386, because I think we took giant piston cores from like 8,000 meters below sea level. Also, I think the core was one of the deepest, because it was even deeper than cores in the Mariana Trench. So, I think two records were set by 386. And then, we had the virtual onshore party. We had to sign off by our departments, that we have one month only for IODP, for the onshore party, writing all the reports.

There was also an onshore party of Japanese being on Chikyu, doing some of the work. But, of course, that was kind of difficult because – for me, all the Zoom meetings were always super late in the evening, and, well, you didn’t know anyone, right? So, you just saw people on Zoom and you were not connecting to the other team. I was in the geochemistry team, at that time. And we were just in our geochemistry team. I didn’t know anyone else, basically. So, writing was difficult, at that time, because you might have been given the permission to just do IODP, but when you are in the department institute, you have all the daily business anyway. That was kind of stressful for that month. I wouldn’t recommend that in the future (laughs). But I mean, it was an exceptional circumstance.

And then we had the personal sampling party in November or December 2022 on Chikyu, in Shimizu. That was my first time in Chikyu. It was kind of cool.

BMR: Maybe it gives you a different appreciation of the value of IODP expeditions. In a virtual expedition, you were doing the science job of an IODP expedition but without all the other parts that involve an expedition – the living together, discussions, etc.

PB: I mean, yes and no. We had that, too, with the sampling party, where we had like three weeks stupidly taking 18,000 samples. Then, we had lots of time to talk science, and connect, and everything. That was good, and I actually liked it, to maybe disconnect a bit more the offshore-onshore report writing stuff from sampling party. Because when we did this personal sampling party in 2022, we had all the data, so we could look before at the line scans, and the CT scans… We knew all the cores, so then we could specifically target our sample requests on what we want, because normally you don’t know what you get, right? So, you have to write sample requests based on what you might expect, but in the end that might be something different.

So, for example, this time I would have expected more surface material with turbidites, but it was not the case. And I feel like, because we didn’t know what was coming, that more people jump on the same cores, try to take as much as possible, because you don’t know – “Okay, this might be the last core with a good unit deposit or whatever, I might be interested in”. But having like all the data, all the CT scans, all the line scans before, helps to be more strategic in the sampling and in like developing a good research plan.

BMR: So, if I understood correctly, you say that the report writing, in an ideal setting, would be done all onshore, and all the time onboard would be devoted for sampling and discussing.

PB: I would do like, the offshore part, the description and everything, and maybe writing reports on the units you describe; but maybe not do the sampling while you do all the descriptions. You did see how zombie-like we were looking like, because after 12-hours shift, you do like another a 4 hour sampling. So, you sleep like four hours. And I’m not sure if that is actually helping the science.

Rather, it would be cool if you describe the cores and then have the sampling maybe in the last two weeks of the expedition. Or something like this. I mean, this is a proven system, I don’t want to change anything. But I feel like it would have been more strategic and less stressful if we would separate some of the sampling from some of the description, because then you know what is coming.

BMR: I see, now I understand. For example, if we are moving to a new location and there’s no new core coming in, maybe devoting those days to do the sampling.

PB: Yeah. Exactly. So, for example, this time now between two sites, and between two coring techniques. If you have finished a hole, then do all the sampling party in these 2 or 3 days. Then, it doesn’t matter if it takes like six hours, right? Because you have a shift anyways. People can flag and then they can go to bed, and the others can sample for them. Maybe that would be less stressful, and maybe also sometimes less conflicts because, I mean, if you don’t know what’s coming, you want to take all the – I don’t know, ash beds or turbidites, or the structural geologists might all jump on the faults. And if you don’t know that, “Oh, there’s a really cool one in the second core I really want to have”, maybe you also overtake samples you don’t need. So, in the grand scheme, maybe more material might be preserved for future research, too.

BMR: It makes sense. I don’t know about the expeditions’ organization, so I don’t know what are the reasons to do the sampling party like this. But I see how what you say is more strategic. These kind of insights of people working now may be useful for the future.

PB: In a normal expedition, it might be good as it is, but this was also kind of exceptional. I mean, we were dropped on the helideck and were thrown right into cores, so we had no time to adjust. Basically, we landed and then we went into our shift, starting describing, sampling… That might have contributed to the fact that we had nonstop kind of work. Usually, in an expedition, you have a few days to settle in. You go to the place you want to take your cores, and also talk science. Like, now, that we have a few days with less cores, was basically the first time for some of us, at least for some of the VCD [Visual Core Description] teams – because we had lots of description, and with the shallow cores, some of us were super involved in sampling those 400% cores. We basically now had the first time to discuss some of the science, really.

Left, Piero (right) and Hanaya Okuda (center) sampling the cores while the expedition co-chief, Shuichi Kodaira (JAMSTEC’s Executive Director) observes. Right, Piero looking at smear slides in the microscope — he spent long time in this position during the expedition. Photos by Beatriz Martinez-Rius, JAMSTEC/IODP.

BMR: Before continuing talking about the expedition itself, let me go back a bit in time. Why did you apply to this expedition, JTRACK?

PB: I applied because I thought it’s a nice continuation of the work I was doing already with 386. 386 was basically a transect through the Japan Trench, in the trench itself. And we have a site, I think it’s C0090, relatively close by. It would be cool to compare, but also because now we are not in the trench, but on the accretionary wedge and the incoming plate.

My grand research idea, which might be taking a couple of years to do, is basically tracking deposits related to an earthquake all the way from the source to the onshore, and then maybe also back. Because we have an earthquake, we have turbidites, mass transport deposits in the deeper parts, then we have the tsunami being generated that might go onshore, but then the water goes back with the backwash. So, maybe there’s also even some material which is like in the homogenize, which might be related to the tsunami backwash. Then, at some point, I would also like to continue going shallower on the shelf, because there might be also lots of material from the tsunami on the shelf.

So, my grand idea would be at some point being able to tell the full story from the incoming plate to the maximum inundation of a tsunami, basically.

BMR: That sounds so cool. Why do you think you application went through the system and was selected?

PB: I don’t know (laughs). This time I’m a sedimentologist, in the lithology group. Last time I was geochemist, because I’m doing geochemistry in sediments. I guess… I don’t know, luck?

BMR: Probably your proposal was really good.

PB: Maybe, I don’t know.

BMR: So, you already had some experience in sampling and in IODP-related geology work. But, is there something that in these past 3-4 weeks you’ve had to learn, in order to do your daily work?

PB: I think we all kind of had to adapt to different jobs in our group. I’m mostly in charge of SMEAR slides, at the moment. I’ve done lots of microscopy in the past, but it’s already kind of far away. So, I had to relearn a couple of things on the job, basically. And then, everything related to the accretionary wedge, like all this: where are we? What is in these deposits?

BMR: So, it’s more about the geological context.

PB: Yeah, I mean, you want to do a good job. I’m just interested in the top 100m, but you want to do a good job for the entire team, right? So, everything below needs to be described as well in an orderly, good manner, even though you personally might not be interested in that, or in your research. I mean, there are super interesting things to see throughout the entire core. But then, you still have to be focused all the time, do a good job, because everyone else also kind of depends on your work, in the end. Especially in the sedimentology and lithology group, I have the feeling that all the other groups come to us all the time to ask like, “Which unit are we in?”, “Remember this specific core? Was there something interesting? Because we see a spike in – I don’t know – radiolarian”, or “We see a spike in geochemistry”. So, you want to have made a good job to say, “Yeah. Now we are in a different unit. That’s maybe why there is a spike” or there was, I don’t know, an ash layer, or a pyrite deposit, or whatever.

BMR: I see, you have to learn about all the stratigraphic sequence to be able to participate in all the goals of the expedition, not only in your own research project. So, so far in the expedition, what are the things that you have enjoyed the most, or valued the most? And the most challenging parts?

PB: What I enjoyed the most is my nightshift team. We have a very cool team. We have, I think, a strong bond between us. The group of early career scientists it’s kind of cool. That’s also why I tend to do night shifts rather than day shifts, because I feel like sometimes, they’re more young people in the night shift. And yeah, it’s fun to work together. Of course, there are difficult moments – like, after three weeks, everyone is exhausted, working nonstop. But in general, we have lots of fun. And I think that’s the most important part, having fun during work. So, we still enjoy the work and stuff like purely robotic work.

The challenging… Of course, it’s also challenging being so close with many people. And, of course, there’s always people you like more and like less. Sometimes there are challenges when there are conflicts regarding sampling, for example. This time, we have the luxury for the first time to have internet aboard. This is good and bad at the same time because – good, you can have contact to your family. Bad thing is, also, you might get news which you don’t want, or you be more stressed because you get all the emails that you wouldn’t look to, usually. And some people might be a bit more stressed for that, and you have to get over this challenge together.

Communication is important. Sometimes a hug is important. If you’re away for this long time, sometimes you just need… Just go upstairs on the helideck, and you just need to talk because something is frustrating, or you’re just tired, or something like this; coping with all these different challenges.

BMR: I keep seeing again and again that there’s so many relationships developing in the ship, and the importance of personal relations. And I mean, it’s normal, nobody can run away from here.

PB: And I still feel that no one is running away after the shift. You can see it, we all sit together, and hang out together or watch a movie together, and then go to sleep. Because what do you do in your cabin? Like me, personally, I’m not a person who needs that much me-time, so I’m kind of happy to be around people, rather than sitting alone in my cabin. And I don’t need that much sleep, so I just hang out (laughs).

BMR: Well, yes, and this experience only lasts two months. You know that afterwards, you’ll go back you the normal day to day life.

PB: Yeah. At first it looks super long, but we’re already halfway through, and it’s like the last three and a half to four weeks, we’re just like so fast over. Everyone was like, “Oh, I hope we soon finish with all the cores”. And now it’s like, “Oh, we kind of want to have some cores again”.

BMR: Yes, it’s kind of fun to see people around, asking themselves what to do next because there haven’t been new cores in a few days.

PB: I will probably have the same feeling this time than during the two or three weeks of sampling party with 386. It’s, you know, like when you are in high school and you go on a one week fieldtrip with all your friends to a different town, away from home, and then you return and you have to do homework again, and do like the normal things… And it’s like –not depressed, but you’re a bit sad, not to be around all your friends, all day long, anymore. I feel like that’s going to be the feeling again. After having two months with everyone, I think we will miss each other right after.

BMR: I’m pretty sure of that. Here it’s a small world, very comfortable, you see the same people every day…

PB: Yeah, we don’t even have to think about things like – at home you have to think about what do I eat today?

BMR: Here it’s just fine to jump into the ice cream and french fries.

PB: Also with the shifts, it’s very clear what’s happening: eat, work, eat, sleep, repeat, basically. That’s different at home, because we have so many things to think about, to integrate in your daily life.

BMR: What are your short term plans, after disembarking?

PB: Drinking a beer in Tokyo.

BMR: That’s the super-short term (laughs). How about your research in relation to this expedition? Do you have any further plans, in relation to IODP or the people you are working with here?

PB: In terms of science, as soon as I disembark, I need to write a proposal for this expedition to get funding to do the research. Because in Germany, for the special program in IODP Germany, I think the submission deadline is usually early February. This is kind of cool, because I’m still in the juice of like all the science, and it’s easier to write a proposal.

And then, basically we agreed already with some people to work together, especially on the turbidite stuff. So, I work with Morgan and Charlotte. We agreed before we embarked, already. So, then we tried to get right into the science and discuss which of the samples are the most important one, which we want to use first, and then hopefully write a paper within a year or two. And maybe applying for the next expedition.

BMR: In Chikyu, around Japan?

PB: There’s one in the plan for Japan. It’s supposed to be next year, but there’s no call yet. So, as soon as the call comes out – I think it’s like an extension of 386, so it might be cool… I think it’s supposed to go deeper in the borehole. It would be cool to apply there again, to get an even deeper insight into these cores.

BMR: That’d be great to, see you again here. And long-term question. Where would you like to be in ten years from now?

PB: I would like to be … Still in university, being a professor. That’s difficult, of course. I mean, I’m currently in the process of applying to different positions. I applied last year but I was not chosen, which is okay. But yeah, maybe, hopefully, still in research, hopefully as a professor somewhere with an enthusiastic team doing offshore research, too. Maybe not being myself offshore all the time, but maybe sending PhD students and postdocs myself. I mean, already two of my students went to ECORD summer schools. One is a PhD student and the other one is a master’s student who’s also interested in ocean drilling. So, one went to the ECORD summer school in Leicester, in the UK, and the other to the summer school in Bremen, in Marum. So, yeah, I try also to get the students involved in this way. And then, of course, having students working on the samples and all these kinds of things.

BMR: I hope I will see you again in ten years.

PB: Hopefully. Or before, in JAMSTEC. Maybe when I’m next time in Japan, I go to Yokohama and visit in JAMSTEC, and say hi.

BMR: Of course, drop me an email! Is there something you’d like to talk about that I haven’t’ ask you?

PB: I don’t know. I don’t think so.

BMR: Well, this is all for my side.

PB: Let’s go to lunch!

BMR: Thank you very much.

PB: Thank you.