Michi Strasser

Disclaimer

This transcript is based on a video-recorded interview deposited at MarE3, JAMSTEC (Yokosuka, Japan).

The transcripts of the research project Oral Histories of Scientific Ocean Drilling are polished representations of oral conversations, and are intended solely for the purpose of preserving and documenting personal accounts and memories. They are not a literary product, and are not intended to exhibit literary qualities.

The primary goal of this transcript is to capture the spoken words and memories of the interviewee as accurately as possible. Minor editing and polishing works have been performed to enhance clarity and readability while maintaining the authenticity of spoken discourse, including non-standard grammar, inconsistencies, repetitions, and pauses.

The reader must be aware that memories of an event can vary between individuals and may evolve over time due to various factors, such as subsequent experiences, interactions with others, and personal emotions.

Use and citation

This transcript is the property of JAMSTEC and is subject to its regulations. Quoting, reproducing, or distributing this transcript for non-commercial purposes is allowed with due attribution.

Please cite the interview as:

Interview of Michael (Michi) Strasser by Beatriz Martinez-Rius on 2025 May 1, International Center Vienna (Vienna, Austria). [link]

Beatriz Martinez-Rius (BMR): Today is first of May of 2025. I am Beatriz Martinez-Rius, historian of science at JAMSTEC, and today I’m at the Vienna International Center with Michi Strasser. Thank you very much.

MS: Thank you for having me.

BMR: First thing and just for the recording, can you tell me your name, your position and affiliation?

MS: I’m Michael Strasser. Everybody knows me as Michi in the scientific ocean drilling community. I’m professor for sedimentary geology at the Institute of Geology at the University of Innsbruck in Austria. And I’m currently also the head of department of that institute.

BMR: For how long have you been head of department?

MS: Since three years.

BMR: Oh, so it’s not so recent.

MS: I’m learning how to be the head of department (laughs). It’s a learning process.

BMR: What are your scientific interests?

MS: I’m a very broadly interested earth scientist, but I’m mostly fascinated to understand sedimentary records for reconstructing Earth’s systems, with special interest in understanding events in Earth system and events mostly being of tectonic nature.

BMR: For someone who is not into geology, this translates in which kind of regions or processes?

MS: The archives I use to understand the past of Earth system processes are either lakes or the ocean; sediments that are deposited on a continuous basis year by year, or over hundreds of years, or over thousands of years. They form these beautiful records at the bottom of the ocean and lakes. So, I study these records, and then I like it if perturbations occurred in the sedimentary record by either some deformation on the seafloor or lake floor, or if instantaneously a lot of sediment has been transported into the basin. We developed various techniques to identify such perturbations in the sedimentary record, and to reconstruct the processes that led to such perturbations. I’m particularly interested to study perturbations that are caused by earthquakes or by tectonics events. That brings me often into areas where there are earthquakes occurring. That’s why I like to work in Japan, or along subduction zones, in general. But I’m also working in the Alps or in other settings which do not have this high earthquake recurrence, but still there are neotectonic deformation also on longer timescales, and we actually use the same techniques to decipher from the geological record the earthquake history of the past.

BMR: How this interest or passion about earth sciences began?

MS: I think it’s just that I was always curious (laughs). Maybe the very initial stage, I was fascinated by maps, actually. Like, as a child, my parents keep telling me that I was able to read maps before I was able to read books. I was doing  orienteering – I don’t know whether you know this sport, where you use a map to run around the forest. That was my true passion as a kid; that was my sport. So, I always was fascinated by maps. I think at one point I wanted to become a mapper – it sounds very geography; or just like a map cartographer.

I grew up in the Alps, in the mountains. I like to be in the mountains, and so I kind of combined my passion for maps, landscape, the Alps to study geology at University. I knew what geology is because my uncle was a professor in geology, actually. Once I got into the geology studies at university, I realized the whole world of fascinating Earth system processes, and just followed curiosity from then.

BMR: Was there someone in your education who was influential for you? More like a professor or a mentor?

MS: So many people, actually. As I said, it started with my uncle, he was a cyclostratigrapher in carbonate sedimentology. As a child, I joined him once for fieldwork. So, I knew what it is to hammer on rocks (laughs). Later during my studies I sometimes asked him for advice and talked to him.

But then, of course, I was lucky to be a student at ETH Zurich, just because I was a Swiss kid. I didn’t even know that ETH Zurich is world famous. It’s just like, I go to the nearest-by university because on Friday night I need to be back in my hometown. But obviously being exposed at ETH Zurich I got to know amazing scientist and good people there. For me most influential were Judy McKenzie, Helmut Weissert, Gerald Haug, and Flavio Anselmetti… Those are all names that resonate in the earth science or scientific ocean drilling community. And then I realized that actually, in order to understand mountains, you need to understand the ocean, and that it’s all interconnected it. I think they triggered my fascination for these types of interconnected system understanding.

Do we stay in my early career phase? Because basically each phase in my career had different types of mentors, I can surely continue on with the mentors.

BMR: Yes, we can continue talking about mentors in your early career.

MS: Okay, I’ll just go through my mentors and I hope I don’t forget anybody. I think it probably was Judy McKenzie who gave me that call for – at the time it was ODP, to be what was named “a student trainee”. So, I was like a master student that applied for a student trainee position to sail in ODP leg 205, offshore Costa Rica. I was lucky and got invited to sail onboard D/V JOIDES Resolution and was exposed to people like Julie Morris, Damien Saffer, Paola Vannucchi, Miriam Kastner… I was like the little junior student just getting exposed to all these brilliant and highly-influential scientist.

But then I came back to ETH Zurich and I did my PhD on lake sedimentology and paleoseismology. Actually, I realized it’s cool to do ocean science, and be specialist on something, but I followed Flavio Anselmetti – the other big mentor for me – to do a lake research project where I could be my own boat captain. And I was the geophysicist, I was the sedimentologist, I was the coring technician… Actually, I just did everything myself. So, I had my small own IODP project in the lake. That was very influential.

Then I moved on to Bremen, where I was exposed to Achim Kopf and Gerold Wefer. They thought me marine geotechnics and “thinking big”  and helped me to open new doors where I could walk through. I mention Gerold Wefer, the MARUM Director at the time because it was very nice for me to interact with him. Actually, not only scientifically. A lot of these mentors, I never really did research with them, – well, Flavio Anselmetti I did; and Achim Kopf I did. Then I met Greg Moore, which is very influential, and with him I also did a lot of scientific work. But all the other people I mentioned, they mainly mentored me in being curious interconnecting different spheres and processes.

I’m swinging back and forth but always sticking to the primary expertise of reading the records, trying to get high-resolution records. Sometimes, I love to talk about millimeter scale…. Things than get more and more and more narrow. But thinking big and on global scale as thought by my mentors eventually made me able to apply for full professorship, and start to be bit independent; but I still love to talk to all these people I mentioned. I hope I didn’t forget anybody at this stage.

BMR: I love these kinds of stories where it’s not only the science, but also the things you admire from the other person that are not necessary career-related. So, how was like that first experience in scientific ocean drilling? What do you remember?

MS:Well,it was mind blowing, because I realized that these interconnected links are all working together. Being with outstanding people, both in their expertise but also in their character, it’s just unforgettable unique opportunity. And being exposed to and learning about this high-level technology abord the drilling vessel – it was a low recovery leg, so they were mainly doing engineering putting CORKS and instrumentation in the borehole. So, there was not so much action in the core lab.

I realized how all these people work together, how they share ideas and how things really link, from understanding tectonics, petrology, geochemistry, sedimentology… And actually, it’s all interlinked. That was my big discovery: from the classroom, where I’m being taught about things and try to learn, to see how the science actually is; how to do research, to even get to this understanding. And then, of course, also realizing that we don’t really understand a lot. So, what is written in the textbook need to be critically tested, this is super important. I learned to ask questions rather than striving for answers. This experience was very, very influential. I love to be at sea. That was so good (laughs).

BMR: It’s like the mountain kid from Switzerland discovers the ocean.

MS: I think, if I may add this, because scientifically, throughout my career, it always comes back to understanding earthquakes. During Leg 205 I got exposed to subduction zone science, but this was rather by  coincidence. I wasn’t applying because I was interested in subduction zone. I just wanted to experience this ocean science world. But then I got exposed to this research topic, and started to understand this whole subduction zone system, how people act, and how people do research there; and I realized that that’s something which is intrinsically very interesting in terms of the process, and also societal relevance.  I remember, as a kid, I experienced a small earthquake and maybe that was also the moment when I realized I have some intrinsic motivation to understand earthquakes and it’s cascading effects of the whole system.

BMR: What earthquake was it?

MS: It was just a small earthquake in Chur, Switzerland, where I lived. After ODP leg 205, I think I might have had opportunities to follow with one of these scientists I met there for a PhD project. But I went back to Switzerland to study the earthquakes in Switzerland on my own little boat, and doing IODP on my lake. And maybe that was my motivator. I always like to understand the whole planet, but then go back to where I live and understand those processes. And I’m still doing that now in Innsbruck; I’m doing paleoseismology on the Japan Trench and along other subduction zone trenches in the Pacific; but I also do paleoseismology in Austria. So, it’s like linking both, giving back what I learned from this international program to actually my immediate home region, and be Austria or Switzerland, that’s the same.

BMR: How your relationship with scientific ocean drilling continued after 205? You did your PhD and then, how come the next opportunity to collaborate?

MS: During my PhD, I remained interested in earthquakes, and earthquake-triggered sub-sedimentary mobilization. I was in all these conferences, and then I applied, later in my PhD – I knew IODP – so I applied for being able to sail. Then I met Achim Kopf, as I mentioned, my mentor in Bremen. After my PhD I went to Bremen for four years, at MARUM, to work with Achim Kopf and to learn more about the physical behavior of sediments as they are deformed by earthquake shaking. Because I realized that to understand the stratigraphic record, the geological archive of earthquake-induced sediment remobilizations, I needed to get higher education or get better to the physical understanding of how dynamic stresses that are related to earthquakes actually link to sediment remobilization and sediment instability.

By pure coincidence I met Achim Kopf in a conference and he was interested in my lake study, and together with his student at the time, Sylvie, we used the lake as a model basin for ocean margin processes, because the lakes are nicely constrained and we can do in-situ experiments. Achim Kopp was very influential in doing this monitoring and in-situ measurement. He used my lake as his model, as his natural model basin. And that’s how I could learn.

Then I moved to Bremen, and I was exposed to NanTroSEIZE. As an early career scientist, postdoc, I could sail on one of the first NanTroSEIZE expeditions. And as a postdoc, I was intrinsically motivated to do science being two months on Chikyu. The first NanTroSEIZE expeditions were not yet to try to get to the seismogenic zone. It was sort of a transect to drill shallow holes – about a kilometer deep – to characterize the geological evolution of the entire subduction zone. And there, I realized that actually what I had learned from my lakes in small basins, I can apply also on these large scales. And there were a lot of mutual connections. That’s where I met Greg Moore, to work with him, that we can use submarine landslides to reconstruct tectonic evolution of the accretionary prism. And then, just the story continued. I was involved, we got new ideas; I was mentored to write my own IODP proposal, which I was lucky that it got through…

BMR: What was that?

MS: I wrote it as a postdoc, actually still in Bremen. It was the Nankai Trough Submarine Landslide History Proposal, also called: “NanTroSLIDE”. It was an ‘ancillary project letter’ to NanTroSEIZE. So, there was just a few days’ worth of ship time, not studying earthquake-related processes, but instead submarine landslides –these huge avalanches. At the time, our hypothesis was that each strong earthquake, due to the dynamic forces of seafloor shaking, should initiate submarine avalanches. And we identified a beautiful small basin, like a wedge top basin, nicely sitting on top of the whole subduction zone, where we hypothesized it might have a history of submarine landslides that we then can us to understand the earthquake cycles. It was just a window of opportunity, and maybe a smart idea at the time. I don’t know whether it was my idea, or whether it just came out of being together with a lot of smart people. Maybe that’s my strength. I’m able to identify gaps or new opportunities in larger scale settings where I say, “Hey, if we go here and do some very detailed work on something, maybe then we can understand a subduction zone from a different perspective”.

And I still apply this: lake to ocean, ocean to lake, and the high-resolution, low-resolution, zooming in – zooming out. And then it just keeps going.

BMR: I find it very interesting. I’ve never heard about lakes as models of ocean basins; I’ve only heard about the Mediterranean for example, as a model of global circulation… Were you co-chief scientists of one of these expeditions?

MS: Yes. Yet, the APL, the NanTroSLIDE, I was the lead proponent but I was not co-chief because. The NanTroSLIDE was added as ancillary project to expedition 333, co-chief where Toshi Kanamatsu and Pierre Henri; but I was on board and I was like the PI for these four days of drilling. So, I could learn how to be a co-chief. I didn’t have responsibility, but I was involved in leadership; and that’s maybe also something throughout my career, I always get the chance very, very early in my career to be exposed to new opportunities and then learn; and after I learned it, I was able to apply it.

And then, as NanTroSEIZE – now I’m back to “SEIZE”, to seismogenic zone –had many expeditions, I was later invited to serve as co-chief for [IODP expedition] 338, which was one of the Expedition that aimed at deepening the main site – that hopefully eventually will reach the plate boundary fault. There I was, together with Greg Moore, Kyu Kanagawa, Brandon Dougan and myself, we were the co-chief team, so there I was exposed to being co-chief. First, I was the shadow co-chief, and then I was in full responsibility. And later, in the last few years, I had more chances to serve as co-chief in IODP.

BMR: How your perspective on science changes from being a member of the science party, just one more scientist, to being the co-chief of the expedition?

MS: Well, that’s a very good question. I realized that as a co-chief, it’s not about your own science. I mean, of course, the own science that you propose, you have an idea, you would like to test it; you have gaps in the understanding of a fundamental process…As a scientists, myself, it’s like, “it’s my idea…” but then as a co-chief, you really realize that science, the big questions, you cannot solve them by yourself. And now, I still consider myself as like an early career scientist, but actually I have to admit that I’m a mid-career scientist. For ten years now, I have my own research group, as a full professor. So yes, I realize that I cannot do it myself but need a team.

And then, being exposed to IODP, obviously opens it up to a much bigger scale. I mean, in my own lab, if I go from a non-permanent person into a professor with having an own lab, you still are kind of thinking for yourself, you recruit the people… And I was actually exposed to IODP leadership before I was leader in my own lab. So, it was always clear to me that I am just facilitating science rather than I do my own thing. And I think this is the big perspective for co-chief scientists, you have a question, your motivation, but actually you make more sure that all the scientists that are in your team can strive themselves. It’s like a director of an orchestra, right? You kind of make sure that overall, the music is good. So, that overall the scientific objectives are achieved. But each individual scientist gets his or her solo. That’s the big difference of being a science party member, an individual scientist, to being the co-chief.

BMR: It actually also goes probably with evolution in career, right? So, talking about science and managing people, from what you say, you have already quite an experience of managing people and groups. What’s the most enjoyable part and what’s the toughest part, the most challenging part of leading groups?

MS: Well, the most enjoyable part, of course, is when we as a team are successful while being a team and enjoying what we do (laughs). I think that’s satisfaction, right? If we are only successful, but we get to success with a lot of either ignoring each other, or friction on a personal level; then it gets to the annoying thing. We are all human beings, right? It’s enjoyable, I like it; I think I am a person who likes socializing and tries to understand, and tries to be empathic – is that the right word, empathy? But this is also for me emotionally very, hard. And that’s where it becomes unenjoyable. And if it’s then related to time management, because you need a lot of time to get the social interactions, and time is a very limited resource; and if I realize that I fail on this social interaction and team building, because of time conflict, then I get frustrated and it’s not enjoyable anymore.

BMR: What advice would you give to early career scientists for their career, especially if they want to get into scientific ocean drilling?

MS: Well, follow curiosity. Don’t think about career (laughs). Just do it; the career will evolve by itself. That is my own story… I’ve always done things before I thought about what comes next. And it worked out for me. And this is what I’m trying to say to all my students, all early careers. I know times have changed. I know it’s a different mindset in the society; or it’s a new generation of early career scientists. I know it’s more important for them to have perspectives… And so, my advice is to do good things and trust in the future.

Actually, good is the enemy of better. What I always do is, whatever I do, I try to do it on the highest level as possible, as much as I can. If I realize I’m not an expert myself, so I go to experts and try to learn from them, and make sure I know my limits, and I go high. So, that would be the other advice to early career scientist: Do whatever you want, follow curiosity, but make sure whatever you do, do it on the highest level. Don’t compromise on quality.

BMR: Now, let’s talk about the next expedition, where you will be co-chief. How came the idea?

MS: This gives me a chance to go back to my mentors. I actually have to go back to my postdoc time, at MARUM, because the [IODP] expedition 503 is going to be in the Japan Trench, which this subduction zone where the Pacific Plate is being subducted below northwest Japan. And, what’s that now? 14 years ago there was the Tohoku-oki earthquake, which was a paradigm shift on various aspects. This tremendous tsunami, a huge disaster… There was also the Fukushima incident, because the tsunami toppled over… And at the time, I was already in subduction zone science because I was a science party member of one of the NanTroSEIZE expedition. So, I was already into earthquake, into subduction zones; I had connections to Japan, and I was postdoc at the time in Bremen. And Gerold Wefer, the director, was helping to organize an immediate response cruise by a German research vessel – the whole international science community was trying to help Japan to understand what happened. There were many research vessels going out. There was so much to be done to understand what happened. And there are so many paradigms shifts that this earthquake lead us to better understand… IODP went out to do the immediate response, JFAST expedition. And actually, with Gerald as chief scientist of this German expedition – Gerald is a paleoceanographer, but he was the chief scientist on this immediate response German ship – we were working with Japanese colleagues there. But Gerald put me in charge to run the show. So, he was chief scientist, but I was his shadow chief scientist. I was only a postdoc, three years after PhD; and we were following the cascading effect of this earthquake, as it remobilized sediments. For the first time during this cruise I met the Japanese colleagues Ken Ikehara, with whom I am working now to implement the next expedition. And we realized that the Japan trench, this ultra deep – I mean, it’s like 7 to 8 kilometer water depth, It’s amazing if you think about it now – we realize that these are beautiful sedimentary archives that collect all these fine grained sediments that were remobilized during the earthquake shaking into the trench, into this terminal basin.

And at the time, because there were just so much science going on, I mean, it was amazing. There I met people like Shuichi Kodaira, and we talked in various workshops; we talked about, “Okay, we need to better understand…”; JFAST was going on; all these immediate response cruises… And we realized that we can learn a lot, but we need to know the spatial and temporal variability of earthquake slip. The first order questions immediately came through during that time when we were trying to understand what happened.

And then, together with Kodaira-san, we wrote a proposal which was, at the time, a multi- drilling, multi-mission drilling proposal. Which was a proposal for huge mission on how we can understand the temporal and spatial variability of slip. And, and at the time, there was all this new paradigm shift of understanding that it’s not just fast slip, but a full spectrum of fast to slow slip earthquakes; and actually, we had a beautiful mission proposal, outlined a need for additional drilling transects. That was the JTRACK proposal, actually. So, I was the co-lead proponent with Kodaira-san on the JTRACK proposal, the initial one; but I was always on that temporal aspect because we realized that actually very, very, very deep in that Japan Trench, there are individual basins, like small basins. When the Pacific Plate bends into the subduction zone, it creates extensional faults, and creates small horst and graben structures. And if these horst and graben structures are being subducted not perfectly perpendicular, it creates a lot of small grabens, then a horst, then a graven intersecting with the front thust plate boundary system of the subduction zone… A lot of small lakes – I call them lakes and this is actually not a joke because 4 or 5 years later, we went back with a German research vessel to study these small basins with very ultra-high resolution subsurface imaging tools, and taking cores… And Jasper Moernaut, my colleague from lake research, actually, he joined that expedition and he was responsible for the hydroacoustic data acquisition. He was basically applying his lake geophysics skills to this cruise. And at one point he was saying, “Well, it’s seven kilometer water depth, but actually those are just lakes down there”. So, we applied our lake paleo-seismology concept to the basins in the hadal trench. This was always my approach of doing paleo-seismology. Now I took a lot of time to answer your question…

BMR: No, no, that’s perfect. Do you mean that these sorts of lakes are somehow disconnected form the rest of the system?

MS: They are kind of confined, small basins. The water remains the same, and now we are learning also that of course they are interconnected, but from a pure kind of sedimentological point of view, just following gravity, basically a single sand grain or a single benthic foraminifer that happens to be mobilized after an earthquake, it follows gravity, right? And it goes to the depocenter. And we have something like 15 small depocenters along the entire trench.

Then, as time evolved through the whole IODP proposal, going through the Science Evaluation Panels; and I had a chance to be involved, in being a panel members myself –obviously not evaluating my own proposals, but others. So, everything evolves through time. And eventually, the JTRACK mission proposal was separated into different proposals. And then, one proposal we separated because we realized that actually in these basins, we don’t need drilling, we don’t need D/V Chikyu. We can actually maybe equally get the record by giant piston coring. It was just about the time when ECORD promoted the expansion of the Mission Specific Platform concept to consider not just the classical drilling, but also seafloor drill rig, giant piston coring… It was about the time when R/V Kaimei became available as a possible mission specific platform. And it was just very timely that this paleoseismology concept of looking at the spatial variability and time variability to implement with the giant piston core. So that was the first proposal that we got accepted. And we did that maybe 4 or 5 years ago; that was IODP expedition 386.

BMR: The Covid one?

MS: The Covid one, yes. That was a huge challenge, but I think it was amazing; everybody worked greatly together, and I think we achieved most of the scientific objectives. We were a little bit surprised about the time or the sedimentation rate in those terminal, confined basins; in my lakes (laughs). Because the sedimentation rate is very, very huge. Actually, this was another beautiful discovery. We were not aware of, that there’s so much sediment down there. So, this expedition 386 was not able to deliver for really long term records. I think our records are only like 10 to 20,000 years. So, we realized that actually, if we would get a chance to drill deeper rather than being 40 meters, go deeper, then we would be able to open a longer archive. And then, we also learned some absolutely amazing new things… This is actually the most fascinating thing about doing ocean drilling research, because you go out and you discover new things, right? If you go in environments like a hadal trench, these trench basins in seven, eight kilometer water depth, you discover new things.

We were fascinated about the carbon cycle, actually. These earthquakes remobilize a lot of fresh, organic matter that is deposited on the seafloor, and then it’s being shaken by the earthquake and then these sediment gravity flows or turbulent turbidity currents, they don’t just transport mud and sand into the deep, but they also transport fresh organic matter. And it is like if you put a lot of new nutrients into a basin, and this remobilization and deposition triggers a fascinating process of re-mineralization of organic matter. So that was actually the big discoveries from this expedition, 386, that even these earthquake-triggered processes are related to carbon cycles, to carbon sequestration processes… We had a new discovery of how fauna recolonization … So we were studying bioturbation structures, and discovered how the seafloor after an earthquake event is colonized by animals. Because there’s new, fresh organic carbon; there’s actually oxygen being transported. And for a few years, so it’s very dynamic – I’m not a biologist, so I’m not sure whether I used the right words here – but as the seafloor recovers after such a big perturbation event, there is also a lot of biological processes. And we were able to document that. Those were all new discoveries. So, this then also allowed us to formulate a new hypothesis that should happen with the burial of carbon. If we get a chance to drill deeper, we should be able to test this hypothesis with respect to carbon cycle in the subseafloor.

And we also, if I may continue, we also discovered – and again it’s always discovery: You go out, you have a plan, you have a hypothesis, you have a clear experiment defined to sample and you achieve your objectives, normally. I think normally IODP expeditions are quite well designed – but what you actually also do, is you discover a lot of new things you haven’t thought about it before. And so, what we also saw that this earthquake that slipped to the trench, this tremendous – I think Tohoku-oki earthquake moved like 50 meters; basically, whole northwest Japan was moved by 50 meters to the east in like 1 or 2 minutes, as this earthquake occurred. But we then realized that in those very small trench basins, which are very unsolidified sediments, it’s soft sediments that also moved; it basically compresses or confines the sediments and creates small fault and thrust belts. It’s like a little accretionary prism. Maybe with my mindset and with the increasing resolution of technology of looking at very small scales feature, we were actually realizing that we can image these small fault and thrust belts that are caused by push off earthquake slip to the trench. We actually see this in the stratigraphic record. It looks like a Christmas tree in the reflection seismic. And we are able to actually use seismic stratigraphy, and high-resolution event stratigraphy, to actually tie deformation events to these remobilization events that brought down a lot of carbon. If we are able to drill this, and sample this, we will actually be able to reconstruct not just the earthquake history in terms of strong shaking, but also the history of earthquake and tsunamigenic slip to the trench.

So yes, we look forward to go out in November. So that’s like the follow up. And again, we were lucky to propose this and get scheduled for November, yeah.

BMR: I was going to ask you precisely what do you expect from that expedition, but I think you’ve already answered it, and it’s very exciting! (both laugh) If there were no restrictions in, let’s say, the years it takes to move a proposal forward in the system, or in terms of money… What would be your ideal IODP expedition?

MS: Oh… In in terms of science, you mean? Personally, I cannot think of anything more exciting than what we will do in November, right now (laughs).

BMR: (laughs) That’s the perfect answer, actually.

MS: And if I try to answer you, as if I did not have a personal (preference), but consider the entire scientific ocean drilling community effort. Because I was involved in all these workshops that were leading up to the 2050 Science Framework. I use it now for teaching in my class, so I’m fascinated about these true challenges that we have, as a society. It sounds so simple, right? It sounds so simple: “ah, we model…”. But if we go to the nitty gritty details, we really have fundamental questions. These maybe  out of my expertise level; like what are tipping points in Earth’s history, or life habitability of the planet, all these things. But I realized that IODP, or this type of science we do, is truly needed. So, to answer your question, I think I’m happy that I’ll get my own baby done in November; but then, if we have unlimited resources, make sure that the other IODP communities get a chance to study the interconnected earth system… Wait, it’s not about communities, actually. I should correct myself. I don’t want to say, “Okay, now this community gets their expedition; and this community gets their expedition; and this community gets their expedition…”. Because the science framework is about interconnected links. But community-joint expeditions that address the frontiers of understanding interconnected Earth system questions, that’s what I would hope we can do with unlimited funds (laughs). And a lot of time. Patience. We need to be patient. It’s okay to wait ten years for being implemented, because IODP is not about doing your own science. IODP is about doing the science that is needed for the global science community to understand our planet.

BMR: We have some few more minutes to wrap up. You are now supported by Austria as part of ECORD. How the support of your funding agency has evolved during your time involved in IODP? I don’t know if you have direct relation with them, or maybe some way of seeing this support to international collaborations.

MS: Well, first of all I would like to say that it’s great that landlocked country like Switzerland where I’m originally coming from, and Austria, now can be part of IODP. Because I think I wouldn’t have applied to a professorship in Austria if Austria wouldn’t have been member of ECORD (laughs), and thus part of IODP. Here in Austria, there is Werner Piller, which I also want to mention as one of my mentors since I’m in Austria, since the last ten years. He was instrumental in making sure Austria has this membership. And since about 5 or 6 years, I’m took over from him to be the the ESSAC delegate and I am now the representative of the Austrian community in the program. Since then, I have a very good relationship to Bernard Plunger, who is basically the representative of the funding agency, the Austria Academy of Science. And I’m very grateful that they are supportive.

The more critical part is the contribution, in terms of finance and the amount of money Austria is paying as a membership. From a historical development of science funding within Austria, it’s a reasonable share. But it’s ridiculous in the whole international perspective. And I’m trying to convince the decision makers that Austria should increase its membership contribution… But I’m still new in the Austrian system, so I have to learn how it goes. And we have a growing scientific ocean drilling research community in Austria; There is for example Gerald Auer and Teresa Nohl as young professors that are very active in scientific ocean drilling science; we now also have a new microbiology professor who is interested in the deep life; Chris Rinke… So, it’s amazing how it goes. And I really hope that we have a chance to become Austria a stronger member in ECORD and IODP³.

But you have to understand it from a historical point of view, right? Even if we increase the ridiculous contribution to IODP, even if we double it or even if we triple it, or even if we do ten times, it’s still not comparable to the UK, or Germany, or France, or so. So we own big respect to this big funding agencies that they allow us to participate with this small contribution. But nevertheless, I will be working hard to convince the Austrian science funding bodies to invest more into that program.

BMR: I mean, as you say, for a landlocked country is probably more difficult to understand why they should invest in ocean exploration. Even though the point is about international collaboration, and knowledge that can be applied to other parts of the world that are not necessarily the ocean… I was actually going to ask you, what would be the way to go, to get more support?

MS: Well, it’s a challenging question and I think it is probably the same question that all IODP countries are facing in comparison to other science disciplines. I mean, what Germany, or UK, or France, or the US and Japan, what they are investing in IODP is a lot of money, but compared to other science programs, being the exploration of other planets or being these big environmental programs, it’s always declining, and other science disciplines are growing. Which I don’t really understand why, because I think we are asking fundamental questions, and I think we are contributing to transformative understanding. And it’s relevant. It doesn’t matter whether I’m a landlocked country or not. If I may make a small example, in terms of earthquake hazard, actually tsunami hazard:  the 20th century’s tsunamis, like 2004 Sumatra and 2011 Japan, as two single events, they killed the most Austrian citizenships that were ever killed in one a single natural catastrophic event. Because we are in a global world, right? Austrians are also in Japan; and Austrians are also in Indonesia. So, for a single event, actually, even oceanic geohazards are relevant for Austrian citizenship. So is climate change; so is habitability of our planet. Therefore, I think it doesn’t matter if a country is landlocked or not. We are interconnected; Earth system science ideally isn’t independent – but then reality of course is different. So, I think what I have to try to increase visibility and funding, eventually, from the Austrian Science Foundation, is probably the same challenges that Italy has, that France has, that UK has… But for this, I’m still too young. I’m learning. I’m learning how my more senior colleagues are being active in the EU, in the different blue planet initiatives, or so. But we are a small community and the other communities are much more aggressive. Again, I see that in the next ten years I have to learn to be active in this.

BMR: The problem has been going on since ODP times – how to increase the support and build visibility. There is probably a key there, but we haven’t spot it yet. Let me go for the last question – and I promise is the last (both laugh). What has been the most valuable you get from these years you’ve been involved in IODP?

MS: Well, everything, actually. Well, not on the private side, I was together with Bettina, my wife, before I sailed for the first time in ODP (laughs), so she stayed through my whole development, and always supported me. But other than this, I own ocean drilling my inspiration, the way of doing science, the way of striving for getting the best science done. The interconnected international atmosphere, the networks, the friendships… And my intrinsic motivation to do science. So, I’m probably one of these examples that are always cited when Gilbert Camoin says, “The program has made careers”; so, the program made definitely my career. And I own my largest acknowledgment to that, to all these people that supported the program.

BMR: Thank you very much.

MS: I get emotional (both laugh).

BMR: Do you want to add something?

MS: No; I probably missed a lot of things but it was a great conversation.

BMR: It was great. Thank you.

MS: Yeah, you’re welcome.