Eiichi Kikawa

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This transcript is based on a video-recorded interview deposited at MarE3, JAMSTEC (Yokosuka, Japan).

The transcripts of the research project Oral Histories of Scientific Ocean Drilling are polished representations of oral conversations, and are intended solely for the purpose of preserving and documenting personal accounts and memories. They are not a literary product, and are not intended to exhibit literary qualities.

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Interview of Eiichi Kikawa by Beatriz Martinez-Rius on 2024 April 24, Yokohama Earth Sciences Institute, Yokohama, Japan [link]

Beatriz Martinez-Rius (BMR): Today is 24th of April of 2024. I am Beatriz Martinez-Rius, postdoctoral researcher at JAMSTEC, and today I am at JAMSTEC’s Yokohama Institute for Earth Sciences with Eiichi Kikawa-san. Thank you very much. Can you please introduce yourself, and say your affiliation and current role?

Eiichi Kikawa (EK): My name is Eiichi Kikawa. I am working at IDEA Consultant Incorporation as Managing Executive officer.

BMR: Thank you. So let’s start from the beginning. Could you please share where you grow up, and how was your childhood like?

EK: I was born and raised in downtown Tokyo. My birth date is August 6, 1959. I am exactly 64 years old. When I was a kid I was not a good child (laughs). I broke windows, and I made my elder sister cry, and so on. I was not a good child at all, and I was also very active. So many times my father and my mother just (laughs) told me to behave well (laughs). We lived in a small rental house with a large garden where we kept dogs, cats and bantams. I don’t exactly remember, but due to my parents, I always paid attention to and kept looking at insects and small animals in the garden.

BMR: Was it common in that period, to be an active, a bit naughty guy?

EK: While I was a kid, boys were somehow something like that. I think so. I hope so. (laughs).

BMR: What were your parents’ occupations?

EK: My father worked at a plumbing shop and my mother was a cosmetic saleswoman. She got a number one prize in Japan. She worked for cosmetic company called POLA, and once she was got a big prize.

BMR: What sparked your interest in Earth Sciences?

EK: My father’s hobby was to hunt, but because he loved animals, he always failed to hunt anything. He wasn’t a good hunter, at all. But when he went hunting, he always took me with him. So that’s why I was very familiar with the fields, the mountains, and so on. While I was just walking after him, I was looking around, and there were a lot of nature over there, birds… And although he never succeeded in hunting in front of me, [we saw] a lot of animals. So I got very much interested in nature and the Earth. His hunting place was very close to Mount Fuji.

BMR: What kind of animals did you find there?

EK: Rabbits, deer, and even the…  

BMR: Bears?

EK: No bears, actually. Fortunately I have never met with bears. Fortunately.

BMR: So please tell me about your undergraduate and graduate training. What kind of studies did you undertake, who were your professors?

EK: I entered the Department of Earth Sciences at Chiba University for my undergraduate course, and then went to the Geophysical Institute of the University of Tokyo. When I entered Chiba University, actually, I didn’t have any idea of what should I study. As I told you, because from my childhood I used to be very familiar with the nature, and fields and mountains, I just wanted to know more. While I was senior at the undergraduate course, we had to decide what to study for the  graduation [thesis]. And because I had no idea, my supervisor, who was Hajimu Kinoshita… have you ever heard…?

BMR: (affirms)

EK: Hajimu Kinoshita told me, “You may study paleomagnetism.” For no reason. And because I had no idea of what I should study, I just took up his suggestion. But unfortunately, there was no paleomagnetic equipment at Chiba University, so I had to go to the Ocean Research Institute at the University of Tokyo to analyze the paleomagnetic samples, collected in the Izu Peninsula. And just while I was studying them, I became more interested in paleomagnetism.

BMR: Who was your mentor in paleomagnetism at the University of Tokyo?

EK: Professor Kazuo Kobayashi, and also Doctor Toshio Furuta. Doctor Furuta was working for professor Kobayashi’s laboratory; he was a technician.

BMR: So was at that moment, that you got introduced to marine geophysics?

EK: Not exactly. My master thesis was on paleomagnetism for Quaternary volcanic rocks, collected around the Izu Peninsula and  Oshima Island, which is located South of Tokyo. I analyzed Quaternary volcanic rocks in order to study some tectonic movements of the Izu Peninsula, which collided with the Honshu island ten million years ago.

BMR: Sorry, maybe I haven’t understood it. You went to Oshima Island to collect samples and then study them in Tokyo, right?

EK: Yes. Oshima Island and also Izu Peninsula.

BMR: So this was all on land.

EK: On land. When I started the PhD my supervisor, Professor Seiya Uyeda, told me, “Why don’t you study heat flow?” And I said, “no” (laughs). Because I had no interest in heat flow. So then he told me, “what do you want to do?” And I said, “I’d like to continue with paleomagnetic and rock magnetic studies.” Probably at that time I had already some interest in the magnetic structure of the ocean crust, which was the origin of the marine magnetic lineated anomalies.

BMR: About what year was this?

EK: 1984, and if my memory is correct, in 1985 I joined the Geodynamics Symposium held at Texas A&M University to celebrate the 25^th Anniversary of plate tectonics theory. At that time a lot of famous professors gathered at Texas A&M University. I was fortune to meet and be mentored by famous scientists from the early days of plate tectonics who gathered from all over the world. I was able to meet with Dr. Fred (Frederik) Vine. He was the author of the magnetic anomaly in oceanic ridges, published in Nature in 1963 [Note: Vine and Matthews, “Magnetic Anomalies Over Oceanic Ridges,” Nature, 7 September 1963]. That was a kind of benchmark paper to indicate that plate tectonics really happen (laughs). In my field of expertise, Larry Morley, Niel Opdyke, Mike Fuller, Roger Larson, Tanya Atwater and others also participated in the symposium.

BMR: Was that your first experience outside of Japan?

EK: Before attending the Symposium I went to South-East Asia for a family trip. I don’t remember exactly why we were able to have that kind of opportunity, but it was very fun (laughs). I went to Singapore, Malaysia… That was 40 years ago. Actually this year, in February I went to Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur, and last week I went to Singapore. Very much different (laughs). Forty years ago everything was more than cheap, but right now, more than expensive.

BMR: We were talking about your PhD, so did you start studying heat flow with Professor Kobayashi, if I understood correctly?

EK: My PhD supervisor was Seiya Uyeda, and Seiya Uyeda told me to study heat flow but I said no.

BMR: Oh, okay.

EK: I said no because I didn’t have any interest. And then he asked me, “What do you want to study?” and although I didn’t have an exact idea, I just mentioned, “I want to continue paleomagnetism and rock magnetism.” After that conversation, I though very seriously what should I do for my PhD thesis, and probably a couple of days after that, I said to Professor Uyeda, “I have decided to continue rock magnetic studies.” And he said, “I myself also used to work on magnetics but that was thirty years ago. So if you continue with rock magnetism studies…” professor Uyeda told me he won’t be able to advise me at all. Maybe I was too young, but I said, “that’s all right, I will do it by myself.” And it happened exactly like that. My supervisor allowed me to present my PhD thesis but he never advised me anything at all.

BMR: Really?

EK: I studied alone. Actually, I was supposed to present my paper right before ODP Leg 118 in 1987. But Leg 118 was from October to December 1987, so at that time the Geophysical Institute of the University of Tokyo set a deadline for submitting the PhD in December, so… I had no way. I postponed presenting my paper to the University, and the next year I was able to present the paper. So I got one year behind, but that one year was very fruitful for me, because in attending the ODP Leg 118, for the first time I had a close relationship with foreign people, Americans, Europeans, and so on. I got to know how they discussed, how they had conversations… So it was a really good opportunity for me to learn Western ways of thinking (laughs) and that worked very well, for me, to finish my PhD. There were many good and bad things that I received during the cruise, but they all served as a source of inspiration for the rest of my life. For example, the magnetic behavior of Fe-Ti oxide gabbros during a stepwise alterning-field demagnetization was strange enough to make me suspicious. Finally it was found to be characteristic for coarse grained rocks caused by artificial magnetic contamination during drilling with drill pipes. The existence of such Fe-Ti oxide gabbros were never expected then, so there was pushback from the drilling engineers as well as the science team on board, but I knew it couldn’t happen naturally.

BMR: So how did it happen, that you got engaged in ODP Leg 118?

EK: Japan had the right as an ODP member country to have two scientists on board the JOIDES Resolution  for each leg and mainly university researchers were selected and sent to the JOIDES Resolution . ODP Leg 118 was in 1987 and I was the first student and the youngest participant in Japan who joined an ODP leg, at that time. This happened by the recommendation of Prof. Asahiko Taira, who was at the Ocean Research Institute of the University of Tokyo, who knew about my scientific interest in paleomagnetism.

BMR: And regarding what you mentioned before, what kind of things did you find different?

EK: Have you ever heard the name of Henry Dick? He is a senior scientist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. He was a proponent of Leg 118. Actually, he… (laughs) he was just very much active, and once he and I had a big fight. Not like this (signs as if boxing), but speaking. After our fight, we came to know each other very well. And Henry Dick told me, “Eiichi, you are the Japanese Henry Dick” (laughs). And I told him, “Henry is the American Eiichi Kikawa.” So I never lost any discussion with him (laughs). We became close friends to each other, and we still have a contact. It was almost 40 years ago (laughs), 37 years ago, so… He is a very good igneous petrologist, a super igneous petrologist. He received this medal in AGU, named after the famous sedimentologist who published the “Essay in Geopoetry”… Can you remember his name? No? While we try to remember his name, let me tell you something.

When I met with Fred Vine, he was famous for having published the paper in Nature. He published about the lineated magnetic anomalies, but actually before he submitted his paper to Nature, the Canadian scientist Dr. Larry Morley submitted a kind of the same paper to the JGR (Journal of Geophysical Research), and JGR immediately rejected the paper. Actually he submitted it to Science and JGR, and both journals immediately rejected Larry Morley’s idea, which was equivalent to what Fred Vine mentioned in his paper submitted to Nature. So when Larry Morley gave a talk (at the Geodynamics Symposium), somebody asked him how he felt at that time, because right after getting a notice of rejection, Fred Vine’s paper was published in Nature. And Larry said that, “At that time, we were not sure about plate tectonics. So I could understand very well that my paper was rejected. But when I got to know that Fred Vine’s paper was published in Nature, I felt the worst impression that I’ve ever had in my life” (laughs). He said so, yeah. But this kind of things probably happened, at that time. Did you remind his name?

BMR: Harry Hess?

EK: Hess! So, the medal that was given to Henry Dick was the Hess Medal.

BMR: There’s something that we were talking about before and I’d like to go back to it. The situation in Japan regarding plate tectonics, in which geologists didn’t accept it but geophysicists did. You told me that you knew what had happened because your supervisor, Seya Uyeda, explained to you the situation he experienced firsthand.

EK: He explained not only to me, but also to many geophysicists in Japan.

BMR:  What kind of things did he remembered about that?

EK: At that time he was working on heat flow measurements, and he was invited to join some scientific cruise hosted by the WHOI. At that time, at WHOI, we had the famous heat flow measurement expert Dick Von Herzen. Actually he was the co-chief of ODP Leg 118, that was my first leg. So because of that, Seiya Uyeda had many opportunities to work with Americans as well as with European scientists like Xavier le Pichon. Xavier le Pichon did not believe in plate tectonics, but he came to believe after working with American scientists (laughs), so that was interesting, actually.

Japanese geologists are fond of working on local geology, on very narrow areas. So probably, for them, it was not very easy to imagine that the continents moved horizontally over thousands of kilometers. They were also very good scientists. I think they also were opposite to plate tectonics for, as I said, some political reasons. Many of them were members of the Communist Party, who looked up to the Soviet Union where Professor Belosov, a leading structural geologist, strongly insisted that a continent could not move horizontally over thousands kilometers. But I don’t know why most Japanese geologists were communists, at that time. So contrary to geology professors, many of geophysics professors in Japan came to believe in plate tectonics easily in part because Professor Uyeda’s pioneer research in paleomagnetism and terrestrial heat flow. He further applied plate tectonics to explain earthquake and volcanic phenomena in Japan and taught students with latest theory.

Actually, after getting my PhD, I joined the Geological Survey of Japan. I’m a geophysicist, but I joined the Geological Survey of Japan. Many of the geologists there still didn’t believe in plate tectonics, it was 1988. (laughs) 36 years ago.

BMR: It’s kind of incredible, right? Because from the seventies, all the geology of the Earth was developed under the framework of plate tectonics. So, what drew you to enter in the Geological Survey of Japan, and what kind of work did you developed there?

I applied for a research position at the Geological Survey of Japan with the recommendation of my supervisor, Professor Uyeda. After joining, I worked on positioning of the research vessel using satellite, marine gravity and magnetic anomalies. I had to learn a lot to do my work, which was not so pleasant.

 BMR: You mentioned that during that period, you stayed for some time in Texas A&M.

EK: Two years.

BMR: How was the experience? What kind of things did you learned?

EK: I joined the Geological Survey of Japan in 1988. Of course, I was young at that time, still in my 20s, and I wanted to study abroad because attending the Geodynamic Symposium in Texas A&M had been a very good opportunity for me. Also, working together with American and European colleagues onboard the JOIDES Resolution Leg 118 was a very good opportunity for me. So I wanted to study abroad, and I looked into a way on how I could do that. So I asked my boss at Geological Survey of Japan and he said, “the Geological Survey of Japan has a way to send researchers to study abroad, but that system is not for you at all,” because at that time I already had a PhD, and the system was to educate young researchers at the Geological Survey of Japan to get a PhD in the future. So I further asked my boss, “then, how can I go to study abroad?” and he said, “just take the opportunity by yourself.” So, I had a look at EOS, that is the AGU’s (American Geosciences Union) weekly journal, and looked into the positions available. Every week I looked at the positions available, and I applied to a lot. I wanted to study in the East Coast or in the West Coast, such as at the WHOI (Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution), Lamont [Geological Observatory], and also Scripps [Institution of Oceanography] at the West Coast. It was not very easy. Finally, Texas A&M accepted my application. I was so glad. So that’s why I went to Texas A&M. And, as you may know, at Texas A&M there was the ODP’s Headquarters. Because I had been a member of Leg 118’s scientific party, it was easier for me to join Texas A&M, rather than other universities. I wanted to go to (laughs) the East Coast or the West Coast, but Texas was a nice place. Actually, their direct accent was impossible for me. I never understood it, “Howdy Y’all!” (laughs), but I really enjoyed my time over there. While I was studying there I published my two papers in Tectonophysics and Science as first author. So I could focus my time to work on my own studies very well. It was a very good opportunity for me.

BMR: How your relation to scientific ocean drilling continued, after that?

EK: Probably I told you that at that time, Jamie Allan was at ODP Texas A&M as a staff scientists. He introduced me to other staff scientists such as Adam Klaus, and Audrey Meyer, and so on. I had very good relationship with them.

BMR: How about your participation in ODP? How did it continue from that moment?

EK: I stayed at Texas A&M from 1990 to 1992, because my boss at the Geological Survey of Japan had told me, “okay, you got your own position by yourself, so I allow you to stay there up to two years. If you stay two years and one day, you will get fired.” So I moved back to the Geological Survey of Japan after staying there exactly for two years. In the fall of 1992 I moved back to Japan and right after, I joined ODP Leg 147. That was my second ODP Leg, in 1993… I had published my paper in Science concerning lower ocean crustal magnetization and the Hess Deep (note: the area of study of Leg 147) was another opportunity for studying lower crust magnetization. Actually, Leg 118 had tried to drill into mantle peridotite, but we were not successful at all (laughs). But instead of getting mantle peridotite, upper mantle rocks, we were able to get a lot of lower ocean crustal rocks that was oceanic gabbro. So Leg 147 was another opportunity to drill mantle peridotites as well as lower ocean crust rocks, oceanic gabbros. I wanted to apply to joint Leg 147, and fortunately I was successful.

BMR: And after participating on bard, you became a bureaucrat of STA (Science and Technology Agency), right?

EK: (laughs) Yeah, after the expedition.

BMR: How it happened? What was your position, at STA?

EK: Because I had a kind of sabbatical leave from the Geological Survey of Japan [to go to the US], I had to budget it by myself. But I was able to leave my position there. At that time [back in Japan], the Geological Survey of Japan use to send a rotator to the Science and Technology Agency as a bureaucrat. So I had to accept such a kind of rotation of position. At the STA I was mainly looking after the projects the Geological Survey of Japan was receiving from STA, such as ocean floor spreading system that later became InterRidge Japan. I also took care of scientific ocean drilling and a polar research project that led to the construction of a polar research vessel with ice-resistant capabilities, the Mirai.

BMR: What kind of things did you do and learn at that position, regarding scientific ocean drilling?

EK: A lot… Yeah.  I had a lot of experiences, including the initiation of OD21 that continued as IODP. In Japan we called it OD21, Ocean Drilling in the 21^st Century. OD21 was a project to build a new drilling vessel that would contribute to new scientific problems under the IODP umbrella. I was probably the first Japanese scientist who explained the OD21 at the ODP Executive Committee, at Texas A&M, in June 1993. In College Station, yes. Right after my presentation Don Heinrichs, the NSF Section Head for ODP at that time, said, “ I am encouraged that Japan has a plan to contribute to scientific ocean drilling.” Not only the US, but also European countries welcomed OD21. It was really interesting, because to start the international program was a big challenge. Probably I became a scientist because I wanted to keep challenging and so on (laughs).

BMR: When you were in STA, what was the position of people in the Ministry [STA], regarding scientific ocean drilling?

EK: Can you repeat it?

BMR: How was the attitude of other people at the Ministry, regarding scientific ocean drilling?

EK Bureaucrats don’t express their own opinion. They are supposed not to do so. But they do have their own opinion in their minds. Because I was working with them, they probably wanted to ask me a lot of questions because they were so curious. Why scientific drilling is so important, and why to build a scientific drilling vessel, Chikyu, costed so much money (laughs), and so on. But as I told you, bureaucrats are also fond of getting started in big projects, because that means they become successful in getting big budgets. For Japanese bureaucrats, getting big budgets is a kind of good publication for scientists. So  they worked very hard, actually, with me.

BMR: What were your tasks and duties?

EK: Because bureaucrats were not scientists at all, they didn’t even know plate tectonics [theory]. So I had to be a kind of science translator (laughs) to them. I had to explain them plate tectonics, scientific ocean drilling… The difference between scientific ocean drilling and oil drilling, and so on. Some scientific and technical aspects… I had to explain a lot to them, because their understanding was essential.

BMR: From your experience, how was the pathway, from the planning phase to the construction of Chikyu? The challenges, the things that went smooth…

EK: Of course, everything didn’t go smooth at all (laughs). We faced a lot of obstacles many times. But sometimes, we avoided obstacles or we tried to climb up over the obstacles. But such things probably happen when you do anything, right?

BMR: Yes, especially in a program so expensive and complicated.

EK: The only people who didn’t like the OD21 were working at the Ministry of Finances (laughs).

BMR: But actually, Japan had been putting money for other big projects, like in space [exploration] or nuclear research… So Chikyu was one more of this sort of big projects.

EK: You are right and wrong, actually. At that time, STA made a budget available for those two big subjects, space sciences and nuclear sciences, of total 3.3 billion US$ (note: exchange rate is 150 yen to 1 US$). At that time, the JAMSTEC annual budget was about a 100 million dollars a year; right now it is 233 million dollars a year (note: exchange rate is 150 yen to 1 US$). But for space sciences and nuclear sciences, it was more than ten times larger than the JAMSTEC’S budget.

BMR: At that time?

EK: Yes, at that time. Very small, compared to their budget. So you are right in terms of saying, “another big project?,” but compared to space and nuclear research, it [the annual budget for ocean sciences] was very small. Still, Chikyu’s construction costed 400 million dollars, (laughs) that was not smaller at all (laughs). (Note: exchange rate is 150 yen to 1 US$).

BMR: So, from your perspective, why the decision to build a Japanese scientific drillship was approved?

EK: Probably I have to mention Dr. [Noriyuki] Nasu. Nasu was a marine geologist, a professor emeritus at the University of Tokyo and also a chairman of the STA Council, when I worked at STA. He had convinced Monbusho (note: Ministry of Education, Science, Sports and Culture. STA and Monbusho merged into MEXT in 2001) to allow Japan to join DSDP as one of the participating countries because he had an opinion that scientific drilling was important. [Asahiko] Taira-san was appointed as professor Nasu’s successor at the University of Tokyo, and both Nasu-san and Taira-san jointly recommended the construction of a scientific drilling vessel to STA.  Although it was promoted by these two leading scientists, it was difficult to explain it not only to the Ministry of Finance (MOF) but also to the scientific community.  One of the reasons, as I told you, was that the total construction cost for Chikyu was estimated in about $400 million, and JAMSTEC’s annual budget was less than $100 million at that time.

BMR: Right, it was way larger than the budget they had for ocean exploration. Before we move to talk about your time at JAMSTEC, is there something that you would like to talk about that we haven’t discussed?

EK: Right after moving back to the Geological Survey of Japan from STA, I moved to the University of Toyama as an associate professor and stayed there less than 4 years, actually, 3 years and 10 months. Then, I joined JAMSTEC in 1998. I got a strong offer from Dr. Hajimu Kinoshita, Executive Director at JAMSTEC, at that time, and I had to accept (laughs) that offer. So I moved to JAMSTEC and I became Director of JAMSTEC’s Washington, D.C. Office, to take care of the IODP and other international projects at JAMSTEC.

BMR: I would like to ask you more about the Office. Why it was established and why you were selected its first Director?

The Office was established as a liaison office for JAMSTEC’s international projects, and  the main project was OD21. I was selected as the first director probably because I had served on three ODP cruises and I had spent two years at Texas A&M, where the ODP secretariat was located. So I knew many of the people involved in scientific ocean drilling.

BMR: What were your tasks? What things did you have to learn, to be in that position?

EK: Primary, my obligation was to take care of IODP, but at JAMSTEC there were other international projects with the NSF [National Science Foundation], NASA, USGS [US Geological Survey], and so on. So I had to also take care of those programs… But actually not so much, compared to the IODP.

BMR: What kind of things did you do, for IODP?

EK: There were many tasks (laughs). To keep in good communication with NSF was, of course, very important, and fortunately I could do that. And also, have you ever heard about JOI? The Joint Oceanographic Institutions. JOI had a contract with NSF, and the JOI people took care of the ODP management, I believe, with Texas A&M University. So we also had a close relationship with JOI. I had a frequent contact and collaborated with these federal organizations while in Washington, D.C. We together attended ODP advisory committees, and sometimes co-hosted meetings. Actually, we sent one liaison to JOI. So when I was at Washington, D.C., the first liaison was a MEXT bureaucrat and next, a JAMSTEC scientist. They went to JOI every day in the morning and then, in afternoon – it was about 10 minutes’ walk from JOI to JAMSTEC Washington, D.C. Office, so in the morning they went to JOI and in the afternoon they came to work at JAMSTEC Washington, D.C. Office. And after I left Washington, D.C., MEXT started sending a liaison person to NSF, also. So, I would say that mostly, [I was working on] IODP and its related matters.

BMR: It was fulltime work, taking care of Japanese participation in IODP.

EK: Actually, at that time IODP didn’t have started yet. IODP started from 2004, but I was in Washington, D.C. from 2000 to 2002. My task was to prepare for IODP.

BMR: What was the most challenging, the most difficult thing for getting IODP started?

EK: Uhm… Actually, the communication with American and European colleagues was not so difficult. The  communication with the JAMSTEC headquarters was more difficult, actually (laughs) I don’t know why, but their response was every time very slow, very late (laughs). Because I was directly facing the people at NSF, at JOI, or working at the European institutions, I wanted to give them an immediate answer but I could not do that. Sometimes I did that, but I was not supposed to do that (laughs). I was JAMSTEC’s representative, but there were a lot of controversies, even among JAMSTEC people, for some specific topics. So it was not very easy for me to take care of it for some difficult topics with JAMSTEC headquarters.

BMR: After that you moved back to Japan and you stayed in JAMSTEC.

EK: I moved back to JAMSTEC in December 2002,  after staying in the United States close to three years, and then I joined ODP Leg 209 as co-chief scientists. So I came back to my scientific position.

BMR: How did it happen, that you were selected as co-chief of the cruise?

EK: I was recommended by Japan’s ODP committee and the decision was made by the Planning Committee and the Executive Committee of ODP. Leg 209 was planned to drill mantle peridotites in the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. So they probably selected me because I was one of the paleomagnetists who published a paper about the magnetization of the lower oceanic crust and upper mantle together. And they also thought on having an international balance. We were not able to drill the peridotites as much as we wanted, but the rocks recovered brought us a new insight to lower ocean crust and upper mantle.

BMR: What is it like, to be a co-chief scientists, instead of a member of the scientific party?

EK: Good question (laughs). The JOIDES Resolution was a big ship, but a very small world. And Chikyu is also, the same. We had to spend together in such a small world two months at sea, so sometimes there occurs… some not welcoming events. When I was just a member of the scientific party I didn’t pay so much attention to what was happening, because I had to concentrate my time on my paleomagnetic studies, aboard the JOIDES Resolution. But co-chief scientists have to look all around the ship, including the relationship with ship cruise, and so on. So it was not very easy for me, but fortunately there were some scientific participants who helped me a lot. I have to mention in the staff scientists Jay Miller and Henry Dick (laughs). So, as far as my understanding goes, there didn’t occur any serious problems during Leg 209. That was not only because of my effort, but also because of other colleagues’ efforts. Actually, my effort was too small. They helped me a lot. the other co-chief was Peter Kelemen, at WHOI. He moved to Lamont after that cruise…. I believe he is a still a professor in Columbia University.

Photos of ODP Leg 209, where Eiichi Kikawa was co-chief of the cruise. Upper left, examining a core retreived with members of the scientific party; bottm left, Eiichi Kikawa on shore with Michiko Hitcox, yeoperson onboard the JOIDES Resolution. Right, group picture of the scientific party of Leg 209 onboard the JOIDES Resolution. Source: IODP-JRSO.

BMR: So that was you experience in ODP Leg 209.

EK: I have never attended an IODP expedition. Leg 209 that was in 2003, that was my last ODP scientific drilling leg.

BMR: And for several years you served as co-chair of the ODP and IODP Scientific Measurements Panel (SCIMP). What was the role of that panel, and what were its main challenges?

EK: To answer this question, the name of Jamie Allan comes to my mind. I met him for the first time right before I joined Texas A&M, in 1990, at an AGU Western Geophysics Meeting that was held in Kanazawa (Japan). He asked me a tough question about my presentation. He was an ODP staff scientist at Texas A&M, but at that time I didn’t know it. After probably a couple of months since our first meeting in Kanazawa, I joined the Geophysics Department at Texas A&M as a visiting assistant professor, as I told you, and I met him again at the ODP Headquarters. During the two years I worked at Texas we had a close relationship, hanging around together… We even went to watch motorcycle races in the pouring rain.

So concerning the Scientific Measurements Panel (SCIMP) of ODP, when I received a request to lead it in early 2000 I asked Jamie Allan, who was the department head at Appalachia State University at that time, to co-chair it with me. SCIMP covered a wide range of matters including the shipboard equipment for the JOIDES Resolution, their party tools, the ODP publications, the data and sample policy and so on. It was not possible to manage alone. He really did a very good job!

BMR: And after that, have you been in relation to scientific ocean drilling?

EK: Not exactly, actually. I got another mandate from JAMSTEC, to become Head of the Promotion Office of the Research Center. This was followed by my last position at JAMSTEC, which was Director of the Submarine Resources Center.

BMR: How you past experience in sciences and in scientific ocean drilling was useful for performing those directive positions?

EK: Actually, generally speaking, every experience will be useful. Even our talk will be useful for both of us in the future, maybe. Specifically speaking… I would say that, in any aspect, I remind my experiences first, to make them useful to what is happening in front of me right now (laughs) I couldn’t express very well, but…

BMR: Yes, I understood.

EK: So that is just how we live, right? (laughs)

BMR: Yes.

EK: We established the Center for Submarine Resources (at JAMSTEC), because of the recent very hot opinion to develop such underwater resources, in response to the strong demand for submarine resources in and around Japan’s Economic Exclusive Zone. So in 2011 JAMSTEC established the Submarine Resources Center and I became the first Director. We studied topics covering marine biology, even including bacteria, geology… The scale and range varied very, very much. But because I had joined four ODP legs, and the last time being a co-chief scientist… I probably didn’t recognize at that time what I was thinking about [my time on] the JOIDES Resolution, but automatically, sometimes I realized that – I had a kind of déjà vu (laughs) As I told you, in this thing or in other things, in response to what is happening in front of me, many things that I learned… A lot of them came from my experience onboard the JOIDES Resolution, that is true, yes.

So at the Submarine Resources Center, in 2014 we were successful in getting a big research budget, the SIP [Cross-Ministerial Innovation Promotion Program] that enabled us to bring Chikyu to drill hydrothermal ore deposits in the Okinawa Trough. The Chikyu drillings provided a lot of findings on polymetallic sulfide deposits. A total budget of $250 million (note: assuming $1 = 100 yen) was spent for the five-year SIP project, including Chikyu operations.

BMR: Now that you mention submarine resources. Have you ever encountered some opposition or environmental concerns to the activities for resource exploration?

EK: Actually the Research Center for Submarine Resources did include the research for environment assessment, because it is very important. And unlike other submarine resource centers, JAMSTEC didn’t work on oil and natural gas. We were working on methane hydrates, which equivalent to natural gas but it’s not exactly like that, and we never worked on oil. We worked on the origin of oil. And for the other submarine resources, such as manganese nodules, manganese crusts, rare earth deposit, and hydrothermal deposits, we try to find them and we were successful finding some of them, of course. But every time, we took care of the environmental issues. This is not an official statement, but my honest statement (laughs).

BMR: I understood. I’ve heard a lot of misunderstandings and opposition to the exploration of natural resources in the seafloor and below, that’s what I was asking.

EK: Several things used to happen to JAMSTEC cruises, for example, while there were going to perform some seismic surveys… Do you know the Airgun (note: source for marine geophysical exploration), right? So people who care about marine mammals never allowed us to perform Airgun surveys, because they believe that the Airgun noise can give marine mammals a lot of damage. I’m not sure if that’s correct or not, but that’s just… Some activities that are not happening in natural conditions, we do them at sea. If my memory is correct, as I told you the Center for Submarine Resources has the environmental assessment, and some JAMSTEC researchers worked on the effect of seismic surveys on marine mammals, and the research results were not so clear, but… Not so much serious problems, if my memory is correct. but I don’t know (laughs).

BMR: Now, we are about to finish. What have been the most rewarding or valuable aspects from your involvement in scientific ocean drilling through your career?

EK:Although scientific drilling is not the entirety of my research life, collaboration with foreigners in international joint research through ODP Legs was a good opportunity to experience and understand cultural differences.

BMR: And what do you see as the future direction and potential challenges for scientific ocean drilling research?

EK:Scientific ocean drilling has brought us many new discoveries as well as many problems to be solved. It is important for government officials who decide the budget to understand this point well and to continue scientific ocean drilling.

BMR: Thank you very much.