Bex Robertson

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This transcript is based on a video-recorded interview deposited at MarE3, JAMSTEC (Yokosuka, Japan).

The transcripts of the research project Oral Histories of Scientific Ocean Drilling are polished representations of oral conversations, and are intended solely for the purpose of preserving and documenting personal accounts and memories. They are not a literary product, and are not intended to exhibit literary qualities.

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Interview of Rebecca Robertson by Beatriz Martinez-Rius on 2024 September 16, D/V Chikyu (Japan). [link]

Beatriz Martinez-Rius (BMR): Today is September 16 of 2024. I am Beatriz Martinez-Rius, postdoc in JAMSTEC. I’m onboard Chikyu, Expedition 405. Can you please tell me your name, affiliation or position?

Bex (Rebecca) Robertson (BR):I am Bex Robertson, or Rebecca Victoria Macaskill Robertson, and I am currently coming towards the end of my PhD at Durham University in the UK.

BMR: So Bex, where did you grow up and what kind of family do you come from? Was there any scientist?

BR: In my immediate family, no one went to university. People went to college, they had quite practical jobs. Like, half of my family were farmers in the very, very northern islands of Scotland, very remote; and the other half were kind of doctors, but I didn’t know them very much. And growing up – because my mother raised me, and I was a single child, I was encouraged to do a lots of music. But I love being outside, and I love understanding processes of how things work, like – looking the dishwasher at home and try to figure out how it worked.

So, a nice combination of all of these things turned out to be Geology, of course, because it’s just understanding the process of the natural world. I was encouraged to go to university by my mother. I ended up originally wanting to do meteorology or physical geography – I loved glaciers, the idea of that. We weren’t taught geology in school, so I didn’t have much of an idea to actually what it was. But I was like, “Oh, geology is just physical geography, but with a bit more science” (laughs). I’m not sure how correct that is. I ended up applying to a bunch of places in Scotland that did geology, and Aberdeen turned out to be where I went.

Of course, Aberdeen is very… At the time, it was a very petroleum-based course. I mean, the first four years it was a course called Petroleum Geology. And then, at the end of my fourth year, when people were going off and leaving to join companies like Shell, and Chevron, and BP, I didn’t fancy it. So I stayed for another fifth year to do an integrated master’s , kind of supported by Rob Butler and Clare Bond, both structural geologists. I enjoyed the structure, I enjoyed thinking of how things fitted together, and deformed… I wanted to understand why mountains were where they were and the processes that created them. Ultimately, that ended up in thinking about earthquakes, and the movement of the rocks, and actually what was happening during the movement of the rocks. So, co-seismic situations. Then I did a fifth year there, which was essentially like a preparation for a PhD. And then COVID hit, unfortunately (laughs), so that was a little bit of an unusual situation. I worked with a research group there, making overlays with 3D outcrops, and also working in a supermarket at the same time. That was a little bit of a tough year, I would say. Being stuck in the house but working in a shop and doing some research, as well. In 2020 I came to Durham, and started my Ph.D. And… I guess that’s where we are now (both laugh).

BMR: You mentioned two professors. Do you want to expand on that, on who influenced on the direction that your research took?

BR: My fifth year project was working on the kinematics of the liquefaction events that happened in Indonesia, like co-seismically, or just post-seismically, and how devastating and awful that was. I was encouraged to do that by Rob Butler, and I ended up speaking a lot to Clare Bond at the same time, because it was a bit out of everyone’s depth – like, no one there really does that. It was just like an interesting thing (laughs). So, that was an interesting experience.

I’d previously worked a little bit with Clare [Bond] as an undergrad. I got a scholarship to work during a summer, and I ended up doing Raman spectroscopy on some samples that she had from Syros, which is like a fossilized subduction zone, essentially. That was kind of where I first got interested in subduction and plate boundary complications. They were both supportive and had very contrasting supervising techniques.

And there, my PhD supervisor was actually working for a year. She just had a teaching position for a year there. I met her and I watched her speak about her PhD research, and it was really inspiring – on the Alpine Fault in New Zealand. She was like, young and energetic, and I was like, “wow, she’s  such a cool woman! I want to work with her”. Just before she left Aberdeen to move to get a job in Durham, she mentioned to me that she was writing a project that she thought I might be interested in. So it worked out, the funding lined up and yeah, that’s why I ended up in Durham.

BMR: It’s so nice that you can find references, people that you really relate to and think, I want to be sort of like her, do what she or he does. How came, that you get to know scientific ocean drilling?

BR: Well I feel very lucky because my supervisor, Catriona,  had previous experience. She sailed with the JR [JOIDES Resolution] to the Mariana Trench, and processed cores on the Chikyu for the Oman drilling project. And she spent a lot of time in Southampton, which in the UK is sort of the IODP hub. And through her, I met lots of other people in Southampton that have all worked on various drilling things.

It seemed to be the thing that everyone was talking about, like, “Oh, on this expedition I did this”, “Oh, we had this wonderful experience”, “We got this amazing data”, “Oh, it was really difficult because…” Well, it sounded like a really formative scientific experience to me. Lots of interesting people, as well.

So actually, before I even started my PhD, Catriona had recommended that I apply for an upcoming cruise. I didn’t get it for that, but writing the application process was a good experience. I mean, I was applying for geochemistry with almost no geochemistry background, at that point. I was like a week or two into my PhD (laughs). But that was a good experience. So when I saw this call and the email came through, I said, “Oh well, why don’t we just stick another application in?” (laughs) And I obviously knew that I was doing a lot more. I was starting my fourth year of PhD, and it just seemed unbelievable perfect. Looking at the list of co-chiefs, their papers, I’m citing them, and… Reading the scientific prospectus was like, “that’s aligned with my research, that’s also aligned with my research…” Co-seismic reactions is ultimately what I’m interested in, and the mechanical consequences of them, and that’s what everyone here or most people on board seem to be keen on, as well. So, it just seemed so perfect.

So, even if I the chances of me getting it were so slim, I thought that it was a good idea to think about my research on the Alpine fault and the transpressional plate boundary, thinking about how that fits into subduction setting, and how you would test what your hypothesis are from another area. So writing it was like a learning experience for myself. And I didn’t expect anything to come out of it. And here we are (laughs).

When I got the email in February, I can’t believe it. I didn’t think it was real, and I didn’t think it was happening. And only when I landed in Japan did I actually think, “Oh, they haven’t made a mistake”. (both laugh) I should be here. I was like, “No, something is going to happen (both laugh) . Someone’s going to say, “Oh, we shouldn’t have invited Bex” (both laugh) “Oh, we meant to send someone else” (both laugh)  

But yeah, it seemed pretty perfect. And speaking more to the geochemist on board – it’s the first time that I’ve been able to have a really in-depth conversation about some aspects of my research. It seems that there are research groups in Japan that have been doing things for five, ten years, that no one else seems to have picked up on. But that’s the stuff that I’m most interested in. So, being able to have a casual conversation with someone so well versed in this literature, is fantastic. It’s such a good opportunity. I’m so happy to be here. It’s a privilege.

Training on core sampling onboard, before the actual cores came in, during IODP Expedition 405. Left, Bex with Takeru Yoshimoto examining a core sample. Right, Bex learning how to handle a just-arrived one. Both images credited to ©️Doriane Letexier / JAMSTEC / IODP

BMR: That’s something beautiful of this community, that you all are talking the same language, you all know kind of the same things… By the way, what did you know about the context of Japanese seawaters? I guess the geological context that you are studying for your PhD is different.

BR: Yeah. It is entirely different. The rocks that I’ve been looking at have been brought up from 35 kilometers depth; whereas these are like marine sediments, essentially (laughs). So, quite a difference, I think. When I was writing the application, I took like ten days off my PhD and just read about subduction zones, particularly all the J-Fast (note: IODP Expedition 343) stuff. And that was a really, really good experience, really energizing. And actually has been really helpful, because next year I will start a postdoc at Cardiff University, with Ake Fagereng and it is on subduction zones (laughs). So, this is like the perfect warm up to speak to people and learn more about the literature, before I then go into that for three years. I have to know what I’m doing. (laughs)

BMR: That sounds like a learning experience. I understand that it’s helpful for your PhD, but it’s also a base for the future.

BR: Yeah, a real jumping off point.

BMR: Is this your first time offshore?

BR: Yes, absolutely. I’ve watched many of my classmates going to the HUET training (note: Helicopter Underwater Escape Training) in Aberdeen to be mud loggers for BP or something. But it’s fun to actually be here, and be doing these things. Especially having a background from Aberdeen. They were priming you to go and look at seismic, to go and like well logs – that’s pretty much what the course is about. So, I feel that I have accidentally come full circle. And I didn’t expect to be looking at this, or even be offshore. Again, I never thought that it could be part of my future. But here we are (laughs).

Bex working with other scientists on the new cores onboard Chikyu, during IODP Expedition 405. Credit of both images: ©️Doriane Letexier / JAMSTEC / IODP

BMR: Aberdeen has a background of oil and gas offshore, but this is an application of all of that for science. So it overlaps in some things, but with different goals, right?

BR: Yes, it’s much more interesting than looking for reservoirs. (both laugh)

BMR: We don’t have new data yet – that’s an important point to make in the interview. We have been here for ten days. So, things may change in the future but, what are your first impressions of this expedition, so far?

BR: Uhm… I suppose not getting your hopes up too much is a big part of it, but if we manage to collect a core, even if we collect a core from a fault, it’s not that common. There’s a fault associated with the decollement. So we can still understand fluid pathways, permeability, and the physical properties of that material. I think, if we get what we came for, fantastic. But… A lot of my experience in research has been trying and failing more than trying and succeeding – I don’t know if many of the other PhD students have had such those success rate experimentally (laughs). So that’s really prime to me, to not expecting very much. Whatever we get, it’s just gonna be good. Like, that little bit of logging that we managed to do, that’s something that’s new data, any new data is great. So, I try not to be hard on myself. I’ve got big plans for what I would do, should we get the samples, but…  You know, like my world is not going to come crashing down if we don’t get it (laughs).

BMR: Well, for a historian it works the same. You come with an idea and then, with what you are getting, you re-make the plan. But for all we’ve done and learned so far, it already worths a lot being here.

BR: Yeah, the conversations alone… I mean, I have made this whole process right there, yeah.

BMR: So, what has surprised you the most?

BR: I was expecting to have a lot more preparation required for when the core comes (note: the scientific party had multiple training sessions following this interview). I’m kind of relieved not to be the second leg, because we have had a fair bit of preparation, a fair bit of training. But I feel like they’ll be coming in just as like, the swing of like, the decollement is probably a few days away when they arrive, and the PhD students coming in, having to get to grips with everything, just as the most important samples are arriving. So, I feel lucky that we have all this time to be prepared. Also, I wasn’t expecting to get so much work done. But I’m also very happy to do that, it’s like a writing retreat (laughs).

BMR: And, some thoughts about life onboard?

BR: I feel like all I do is eat (both laugh). I eat, I work a little bit, I eat, I work a little bit… I sleep. But everyone is so welcoming, and lovely, and passionate. I feel like it takes a very specific type of personality to want to come on one of these cruises. I don’t know if they tried to read through the lines of people’s applications to see what people’s personalities are like, to decide if they will suit onboard life. I realize that’s really not for everyone, but I’m quite okay with life onboard. Like, it’s lovely to not have to think about the mundane aspects of life. I’m sure everyone said this, like laundry, cleaning, cooking… — I love cooking, but. I feel like this is the perfect storm to get good ideas manufactured, to have great collaborative conversations, and to get a lot of work done, because there’s nothing else to really distract you. We are in the middle of the ocean! (laughs) I can’t just wander down to the shops, to do something else. It’s a double edged sword, I suppose, only having really work to do. But also, the positive aspect of only having work to do, is that you really get you work done. And at the end of my PhD, this is the perfect place to be (both laugh).

BMR: You really see that people onboard kind of transforms in a positive way, into a more kind of family like relations… Everyone is so nice and prone to share.

BR: Yeah. A few days in, I was still a little bit nervous around people, unsure on what to say, but… I feel that now, and particularly around the younger members – I’m still getting to know the older members of the crew – it feels like we all have been working together for months, and it’s only the end of week 2 or something…

BMR: (nods)

BR: Week one?

BMR: We are ten days in (both laugh)

BR: I’m already completely lost on how time passes. (both laugh)

BMR: Every day looks the same.

BR: The last few days particularly. I think until we start coring, and then all bind together as well, but… the cycle of days does not exist for me anymore. (laughs)

Working at the core lab of Chikyu, during IODP Expedition 405. Credit of both images: ©️Doriane Letexier / JAMSTEC / IODP

BMR: So let’s go to the difficult question. Where do you see yourself in ten years from now?

BR: When I was reading the questions you laid out I thought, “Right, I have to line and go in bed and think about the answer to that…” and I didn’t do that (laughs). I don’t really have an answer for you (laughs).

I mean, I see it going one of two ways: the first way is kind of the generic answer of, in ten years’ time, I hope to finish my upcoming postdoc, or start hopefully writing a successful fellowship, complete that, and then get into a nice, comfortable job, within a nice university, doing excellent research with lovely students, and a good collegial environment. That’s option number one. That’s what I thought a lot of people onboard will be looking for.

Option number two is, I do my postdoc. I say, “this was a nice experience”… I don’t really see myself working in industry as much. I really love to… if I’ve got an idea, I can then go and chase it down. Whereas when you have a typical, normal job, you can’t really do that. In academia of course, especially, you can do that. But… I think I would struggle to be in an environment where I had to do what I’m told, like work in a project in the way that someone else wants me to work on – until you become a project manager.

So, maybe I’ll end up doing something completely different. I don’t know. I enjoy some aspects of writing, so maybe some on that. I love music, maybe something doing with that… I love art… Both completely unrelated to academia. The science is generally viewed as quite cold and clinical, but you need to have creativity to be good. So, maybe something more creative. If I can’t get into creative science, then I can get creative in something else (laughs). I guess we’ll see!

 BMR: You can always come to the history of science, that’s super creative! (both laugh) So, is there anything else that you would like to mention? Some story you had in your head that you wanted to share and I didn’t ask you?

BR: I hope that in ten, twenty years’ time, maybe we have some sort of cruise reunion or something, and we look back at these, and we’re like, “Oh, looks so young!” “Look at her hair!” “Oh, look at her face! Such a chubby cheeks!” “She’s such a young researcher!” (laughs) That’s what I hope to get out of this. And thank you for putting this together.

BMR: Thank you very much.

BR: That’s nothing very consequential for me, but yeah, I look forward to seeing this in the future, thinking – oh, she didn’t know what was going to happen! (both laugh)